G-6DEFP72BRX Anti-Racism & Raising the BAR with Kyle Cronk - Dads Interrupted

Episode 2

full
Published on:

18th Jun 2024

Anti-Racism & Raising the BAR with Kyle Cronk

It had been over 6 months and Kyle's son Brody wouldn't talk to him ... wouldn't return his texts. Kyle is a CEO at the YMCA in Seattle and a leading executive leadership coach who, in how own words, is "supposed to be this person that knows how to build relationships and I can't ... do it with my own son." He openly discusses the pain he felt and shares his consistent efforts despite not receiving the outcome he wanted: a connection with his son that he once had.

Kyle shares his visionary leadership framework of raising the B.A.R. - Belonging, Achievement, Relationships.

We talk about Kyle's unique living situation with his ex-wife so that he could remain a connected dad.

We discuss what antiracism is and Kyle's gives us his top actionable tips and reveals how everyone can apply Kyle's B.A.R. framework at their companies and in their communities.

All this and more...

This... is Dads Interrupted.

To connect with Kyle, hire him for leadership training, or see more about the work he is doing, check out:

https://www.linkedin.com/in/kylecronk/

RESOURCE:

Ready to take on a growth and ownership mindset in your relationships?

For the latest info on my 1:1 and group coach offerings, check out:

https://www.seatatthetablecoaching.com/

Join my free email community, The 3 Point Advantage, for your weekly advantage to elevate your communication, leadership, and relationships here:

The 3 Point Advantage newsletter

Say hi on Instagram

Follow me on Facebook

Get my latest insights on LinkedIn

LIKE THIS EPISODE?

It'd be amazing if you took 15-30 seconds and share it, rate it, review it and follow the show! Send feedback to me directly on Instagram @frederickvanriper

Transcript
Speaker:

All right, welcome to another episode

of the Dads Interrupted podcast.

2

:

Our guest today is.

3

:

His name is Kyle Kronk, and if

you have been on LinkedIn at all

4

:

then you probably know this man.

5

:

But if you haven't, I highly

advise you to check him out.

6

:

Check out his content.

7

:

He's always dropping pearls

of wisdom about leadership.

8

:

Kyle describes himself, and I'm gonna read

this, as a beard wearing, beer drinking,

9

:

guitar playing, mountain bike riding CEO.

10

:

And father of three high school boys.

11

:

So we're going to dig a little bit

deeper into what Kyle's been up to.

12

:

But first Kyle, welcome,

welcome to the show.

13

:

Oh, I'm so excited to be here.

14

:

Thanks for having me on.

15

:

It's, it's always honored and

humbled when somebody wants to

16

:

talk to me and ask me questions.

17

:

And so it's so such an odd thing,

but it's so cool at the same time.

18

:

I'm super stoked to have you.

19

:

First of all, because I know how.

20

:

Powerful.

21

:

The work that you do with, executives

across the country is, but really you

22

:

know, you and I've gotten to know,

know each other a little bit over the

23

:

last like half a year on LinkedIn.

24

:

We've had a couple conversations

before today and your perspectives

25

:

on leadership and we've talked about

this often cross over into the work

26

:

that I'm doing with moms and dads on

being leaders or co leaders at home and

27

:

adopting that ownership mindset at home.

28

:

So, like, when I, you know, I follow you.

29

:

And I see the things that

you're talking about.

30

:

And I'm like, yep, that

that would work at home.

31

:

And so it's this idea that

everything's kind of connected.

32

:

And so I think not to put too much

pressure on you, but I know you're

33

:

going to deliver a lot of value for the

men and dads that are listening today.

34

:

So You know, and selfishly, I

know anytime I talk to you, I

35

:

get value, added to my life.

36

:

So that all being said, the first question

I always ask our guests is what does it

37

:

mean to you to be an interrupted dad?

38

:

Oh, wow.

39

:

What a good question again.

40

:

Thanks.

41

:

Really honored and humbled to be here.

42

:

So, like you said in the introduction,

I have three high school boys.

43

:

I have a senior in high school,

a sophomore and a freshman.

44

:

And the two, so two of them

are biological, the older two.

45

:

And the, the freshman is adopted.

46

:

We became foster parents when at the time

let's see, when we met Alex, he was a

47

:

kindergartner and this is a cool story.

48

:

This isn't about interrupted deaths.

49

:

This is just a cool story about Alex.

50

:

So when Megan, my ex wife.

51

:

And I met Alex.

52

:

Alex was a kindergartner who could

not leave from under a table screaming

53

:

to go into a typical classroom.

54

:

Just all kinds of trauma,

like big, crazy stuff.

55

:

And so we became respite foster

families because she was living with

56

:

her, at the time, they were living

with their great great grandchildren.

57

:

So if you can imagine a kindergartner

living with people that are in their

58

:

eighties, so school would let out

at like three 34 o'clock and like,

59

:

these people need to go to bed.

60

:

It's, it's that crazy.

61

:

So I love him.

62

:

Yeah.

63

:

I love, I mean, I could not

think about a better thing to

64

:

do when my first child was born.

65

:

His name is Cohen.

66

:

He is now going to graduate from

the high school that he's at and

67

:

he's going to play college football.

68

:

In fact, Yesterday he just won in

his first track meet of this year,

69

:

he won the a hundred meter dash and

then took second in the high jump.

70

:

Let's go.

71

:

He's awesome.

72

:

He's doing his thing.

73

:

And then my middle boy Brody he's

a basketball dude and they just

74

:

ended their state playoff run.

75

:

So they're very, the two older

ones are very athletically gifted.

76

:

So that's, that's awesome.

77

:

So being a dad interrupted.

78

:

So a little bit about me.

79

:

I I grew up also being very athletic and

doing a whole bunch of different things.

80

:

And when I was a young person in high

school, I told somebody I wanted to

81

:

be a teacher and they said, oh, you

should figure out if you like kids.

82

:

I thought, well, that's,

that's pretty good advice.

83

:

And so the guy that said that the

guy that said that said, Hey, I work

84

:

at this summer camp in the summers

and you can go there and volunteer.

85

:

And then that'll tell

you if you like kids.

86

:

So I went there as a 15 year old sophomore

and I never left and it was a Y camp.

87

:

And I worked for the Y from then

from 15 till today at almost 55.

88

:

So I've been working with kids

and adults and doing group related

89

:

leadership, relationship building things.

90

:

Since I was 15 years old and there's a ton

of crossover, but back to the dad thing

91

:

is when, when Cohen was born, I mean,

it was everything, every, every single

92

:

thing like revolved around that human.

93

:

I mean, it was incredible.

94

:

We were fortunate enough to, you

know, my wife who we are very close.

95

:

We are not married, but we live

within a mile of each other.

96

:

I'm at that house all the time.

97

:

Cause we didn't move

the kids back and forth.

98

:

There is a lot of give and

take in a, in a, in the type

99

:

of relationship that we have.

100

:

We're at each at the

sporting events all the time.

101

:

Her mom just passed away.

102

:

I flew down for the funeral.

103

:

So it's, it's, so it's funny

that you say interrupted.

104

:

It's like

105

:

Like everything's like, but I, I, I

gave a keynote speech yesterday on, on

106

:

leadership at this thing in my hometown.

107

:

And I was talking about like,

there isn't life balance.

108

:

It's life intermersed.

109

:

It's like, you don't, you don't go to

work and leave stuff at home at home.

110

:

You don't, you're not at home and

work isn't not there with you.

111

:

It's life is, is meshed together.

112

:

And it's It's kind of like this bubbling

pot of stew that you just have to kind

113

:

of manage and kind of go in and out of.

114

:

So, Dad's Interrupted, for me, it's like,

like I'm in and out of their lives all the

115

:

time, circling and going, my older one.

116

:

The reason why he's going to the

school that he's going to is because

117

:

it's the only it's the only four year

university that has a pilot program on

118

:

the west coast who wants to be a pilot.

119

:

So he's been, we enrolled him

in, in pilot, he's getting

120

:

his pilot's license now.

121

:

So he's been flying for

like two and a half months.

122

:

So this, this week or early next week,

he's going to do his first solo flight.

123

:

at 18 years old and it boggles my

mind that he's going to fly a plane

124

:

well that he can fly a plane, you

know, it's just, it's just wild.

125

:

And he talks about weather

all the time to me now.

126

:

Yep.

127

:

So no, that's awesome.

128

:

So, so, so much going on.

129

:

And I think, like, the way I look at

Dad's Interrupted, for me, is not only

130

:

the enmeshment of all of the things,

right, but it's, it's, and we kind

131

:

of touch on this sometimes, Kyle, in

our conversations, it's, it's about

132

:

breaking the stereotypes of what,

and you mentioned that in your answer

133

:

you know, of what it means to be A

quote unquote good parent, right?

134

:

Whether dad or mom.

135

:

It's, sometimes I think we can

get stuck, and when I use the word

136

:

interrupted, there was a movie when

I was a kid, and maybe you remember,

137

:

it was called Girl Interrupted.

138

:

And it was about I think it may

have been a book before that.

139

:

But it was about someone who

struggled with mental health issues.

140

:

And so, when I think of

the term interrupted.

141

:

Not only is it the, the literal way,

but also, also some of the things that,

142

:

our thinking can, prevent us from

being the excellent dad that we want

143

:

to be because we might get stuck in

some of the, the murky waters of just

144

:

trying to, Do a be our best every day.

145

:

It can get overwhelming.

146

:

And so I, the reason I even started this

show is to, to encourage men and fathers

147

:

to realize number one, you're not alone.

148

:

That struggling.

149

:

A man and as a dad isn't, uncommon

and to be able to talk about

150

:

those things with other men.

151

:

So I think we can feel like we're

not doing our best and then we

152

:

can beat ourselves up about it.

153

:

Yeah, for sure.

154

:

Right.

155

:

So I want to dive in a little bit deeper

if you're willing to, whatever you're

156

:

comfortable with sharing about , I

guess your approach to fatherhood.

157

:

What you've taken from your own

relationship, with your own father

158

:

and what maybe you left behind and, and

kind of what you're using, you know,

159

:

you got three teenagers in the house

today, so maybe you can impart a few

160

:

drops of wisdom on, on how you're dealing

with that, what your approach is, and

161

:

maybe even what they're teaching you.

162

:

That's a good one.

163

:

Well, I have to, I have to be

really honest here at the beginning.

164

:

So you talked, you

mentioned raising the bar.

165

:

So what that stands for is

belonging achievement relationships.

166

:

And that last one is critical.

167

:

And there's a ton of crossover, as you

mentioned, between leadership and how you

168

:

apply raising the bar to a leadership and

building, you know, a culture or a team

169

:

culture or an organizational culture.

170

:

And.

171

:

And you know, what happens in a home?

172

:

Cause you're, again, you're trying

to build a culture within a home.

173

:

I can say, you know, the irony about this.

174

:

So there's a couple, there's so many

ironic moments here that, so again, I

175

:

told you how excited I was to be a dad.

176

:

And, you know, I think my, my children

definitely think I'm a good dad, but they

177

:

also, it's, it's the irony is that I work

with a youth organization and I've had

178

:

a lot of struggles with our children.

179

:

Like our, it's not an easy

family in any way, shape or form.

180

:

Like nothing about it has been

easy over the last 18 years.

181

:

And I'm going to let you continue.

182

:

I want to interrupt just one second.

183

:

Cause we haven't mentioned just so

everyone knows Kyle is a CEO at a YMCA.

184

:

And you've been doing that for how long?

185

:

Oh, geez.

186

:

33 years.

187

:

Well, this, this YMCA for eight

years YMCA before that for six

188

:

years as president and CEO, and then

before that let's see, what are we?

189

:

14, 17 another 21 years in Seattle.

190

:

So I've been with the Y my whole

life and I've been working with

191

:

kids since I was 15 as a kid.

192

:

So I've been doing so a lot of the

irony is so deep and so, you know, we

193

:

had when, when my older son was younger

and, and the other one, and when Brody

194

:

was born, you know, Cohen had this weird

reaction to that and it didn't mesh

195

:

like you would think it would or should.

196

:

There was even some odd kind

of violent tendencies to him.

197

:

So how I got into this, one of the ways

I got into this leadership thing is

198

:

because, so when Brody was a baby and

Cohen was like, they're 18 months apart.

199

:

So that's the gap.

200

:

We could not keep our older son from.

201

:

Hurting his brother.

202

:

And so we saw this thing called

parent effectiveness training by

203

:

Gordon international training.

204

:

And so my wife and I went to this

training and got trained on how

205

:

to like do this behavior change.

206

:

And it was really about you know,

behavior change for the child.

207

:

And it didn't work.

208

:

And we did a whole bunch of shit

and we've been doing it forever.

209

:

I mean, that's probably why we're not,

I mean, if you think about why we're

210

:

not together as a family is because of.

211

:

how challenging this was

and it never got better.

212

:

And, you know, even I forget what

the question was that you asked me

213

:

and I'll ask you again, but I'll

just finish this one little story.

214

:

So up until just recently, and I

think it was the passing of, of their

215

:

grandmother that maybe flipped the switch.

216

:

But for the last, I don't know, six,

eight months, The relationship between

217

:

my middle son Brody and I was horrible.

218

:

I mean, he wouldn't return

texts, he wouldn't talk to me.

219

:

He was, and I'm there every day.

220

:

I'm in his life all the time, like

taking him places, we're doing stuff.

221

:

But I mean, it was so more irony here

is that I'm, you know, supposed to be

222

:

this person that knows how to build

relationships and I can't fucking do

223

:

it with my own son and I'm his coach.

224

:

Like I coached this kid from the

time he was a baby through baseball,

225

:

basketball, and this guy is a star

player, amazing athlete, and all the

226

:

way up until his eighth grade year, now

he's, now he's a sophomore, so all the

227

:

way up to his eighth grade year, he was.

228

:

I was his coach and we were

like tight, super tight.

229

:

And then all of a sudden

something switched.

230

:

And I think to be honest with you, what

I think it is is I think that there was.

231

:

Something happened where

he thought that and I won.

232

:

I don't know the answer to this and

I don't know how it flipped back

233

:

and I'll tell you how it flipped

in a minute, but he, I think it was

234

:

because of the how much the two older

ones fight with each other that we.

235

:

Me and my ex wife couldn't protect

him from his older brother.

236

:

And I think that that might've been

some part of the thing in his head.

237

:

Like, I'm mad at you because like

nothing ever happens when this

238

:

guy does really mean shit to me.

239

:

So I think that's part of it.

240

:

And then, so it's funny because on

my little bar right around the corner

241

:

here, I have a piece of paper because

I was talking to my ex wife about this.

242

:

Complaining like even, even before.

243

:

So their grandmother passed about

three weeks ago or something like that.

244

:

And she was in our life a lot.

245

:

She was in our home a lot.

246

:

She lived, we built a ADU in the backyard.

247

:

So she was there when she typically

lives in Hawaii, but she was here

248

:

when she got diagnosed and you know,

they did the end of life in the house.

249

:

I mean, she was a big part of our

life, you know, from the beginning.

250

:

And so I had a piece of

paper sitting up here.

251

:

I wrote three, five months ago that

said, you know, how I was going to

252

:

text my son to say, look, I still

want to be a part of your life.

253

:

I love you.

254

:

And I would text him these

text messages every day.

255

:

I made a point I'd get up.

256

:

Didn't matter how much

of a jerk he was to me.

257

:

I would text him some thoughtful

thing that I thought was

258

:

thoughtful, but no response.

259

:

So then we go to the funeral, we're at

the funeral, it's sad and appropriately

260

:

so, but at the same time it was kind of

funny, because we were all together, we

261

:

were one family coming to the airport,

I'll never forget this, so I don't

262

:

know that this is happening, Brody has

to, so the state playoff basketball

263

:

tournament is happening, and so we

go down to the funeral and he needs

264

:

to get back, I'm coming back the day

of the funeral, he's coming back the

265

:

next day, And then Megan and my two

other kids are coming back on a Friday.

266

:

So this is a Wednesday, Thursday.

267

:

So I don't know that this has happened.

268

:

I've I got my own ticket.

269

:

And to go to the funeral and do my thing.

270

:

And then they were all doing their thing.

271

:

So we ended up going from Olympia, which

is the state Capitol, which is where

272

:

we all live to SeaTac is about an hour

and a half away, which is the airport.

273

:

And so I'm going to the airport

and I get to the place where

274

:

I'm going to drop off my car.

275

:

And no shit, Brody and Cohen are

in their van right behind me.

276

:

And then right behind them is Megan.

277

:

Oh my God.

278

:

We have three fucking cars

going to the same place.

279

:

So then

280

:

I don't know what happens.

281

:

We get down.

282

:

So we're in the airport.

283

:

Things are kind of funny.

284

:

And then and then just kind of

since, since that funeral, Brody's

285

:

all of a sudden returning my text.

286

:

He called me after practice the

other day, which he hasn't done

287

:

in, you know, a year and a half.

288

:

So I don't know what's up.

289

:

Just goes to show that the, the irony

about, you know, building this, and

290

:

it's, it's funny when I read your stuff

on LinkedIn and I think about, you

291

:

know, you, you hear all the imposter

syndrome stuff right on LinkedIn

292

:

about like, are you really there?

293

:

And I mean, I know everything that

I talk about, about raising the bar

294

:

and building, you know, belonging

and achievement relationships.

295

:

is the thing.

296

:

I mean, even the way that I coached

my son is, is about belonging

297

:

achievement relationships with the team.

298

:

And, you know, I, it's just so ironic

that, you know, even when it's close to

299

:

you this idea of perfection and like,

it's, it's going to be a certain way,

300

:

even if you do all the right things.

301

:

Is not always a guarantee.

302

:

So that's why you have

to keep working at it.

303

:

And I would say this On the relationship

part with me and my middle boy is and the

304

:

advice I would give is don't give up Be

in be in their life be there listening and

305

:

waiting and that was some of the hardest

shit i've ever done and then alex my By

306

:

our youngest person is, was incredible.

307

:

And then the two of them

didn't like, you know, him.

308

:

So that became a thing.

309

:

That's what I'm listening to the story.

310

:

I mean, it's, it's incredible.

311

:

And I'm even a lot, well, , I

appreciate you sharing that.

312

:

But, but the thing, the thing that

really stands out, and it's something

313

:

that I coach on too, is focusing

on the inputs and not the outcomes.

314

:

Because oftentimes we can get stuck

on this idea, you know, you, you read

315

:

all this thing, all these things about

setting goals, achieving these goals,

316

:

focusing on the, the goals, and.

317

:

What I think is more powerful and actually

I think I got, I kind of borrowed this

318

:

from Hormozy for anyone that knows Alex

Hormozy, but he talks about you, if

319

:

you have a goal, it's like your goal

is to reconnect with your son, right?

320

:

In this, in this scenario, well, that's

your, your expectation is that, you

321

:

know, you form a hypothesis basically

that if I, if I continue to text him,

322

:

eventually he will come around, right?

323

:

And then you just focus on that

one thing, that, that input.

324

:

I'm going to text him no matter, like

you said, no matter if he's treating

325

:

me horribly, no matter what he said

to me yesterday, I'm every morning

326

:

I'm going to, I'm going to send this

text and tell him I love him and tell

327

:

him how much I want to be in his life.

328

:

And I'm going to do that every day.

329

:

And your hypothesis is

you keep doing that.

330

:

And your, your outcome is you reconnect

no expectation on the timeline.

331

:

And that's your hypothesis.

332

:

And then you do it.

333

:

And if you are steadfast

in the, the inputs.

334

:

Then that you, you almost in a

way make that outcome inevitable.

335

:

And, and obviously when we're talking

about relationships and teenagers, that's

336

:

not, you know, it's not one for one.

337

:

It's not one size fits all, maybe your

hypothesis was wrong in certain scenarios,

338

:

but the point is you keep trying.

339

:

So, so if the first hypothesis

turns out, it's not really, it

340

:

doesn't seem like it's working.

341

:

You know, you come up with something

else and you try something else.

342

:

Yeah, that's exactly.

343

:

That was a good, yeah, I

didn't know what else to do.

344

:

And my tendency, so the reason my

wife and I have different coaching

345

:

or teaching or parenting pathways.

346

:

And and so my tendency is like.

347

:

Like, like to talk to them and

say, dude, what, what the fuck?

348

:

And so I didn't do that, which I'm glad

that I came up with the texting thing.

349

:

And so I, I just continued to do that.

350

:

Yeah.

351

:

And, and, you know, for all the dads

listening, all the moms listening,

352

:

we, you know, I have a teenager in my

house as well, Eric, you don't yet,

353

:

but you, you will, so feel free to

call us when you have that experience,

354

:

but I don't have all the answers.

355

:

Kyle, I know you don't have all the

answers, but we, we try, and there is no

356

:

parenting playbook, and it's not easy,

and that's kind of the point, right?

357

:

It's that, you know, parenting and life

and, and relationships are important.

358

:

It's not easy, but you gotta, you

gotta be willing to be vulnerable,

359

:

get uncomfortable, do the thing

that maybe feels scary so that you

360

:

can see what's on the other side.

361

:

And I think human beings, it's natural

for us to be afraid of uncertainty.

362

:

We want control.

363

:

We all, like to know

what's going to happen.

364

:

And the truth is most times we don't.

365

:

And so.

366

:

If you stay in that comfortable zone,

the comfort zone, you know what's

367

:

there, it's a, it's a known quantity,

but do you, do you like what it is?

368

:

And if you don't, then I would, I would

encourage the listeners to do something

369

:

that is outside of your comfort zone.

370

:

If you're looking for growth in

your life, in your relationships,

371

:

in your parenting, do something

that maybe you wouldn't think of.

372

:

One of the questions that I like to

ask is what, what rules can you break?

373

:

Because we get stuck in these patterns

and cycles of, of how we operate because

374

:

it, it's just, that's how we operate

every day with day in and day out.

375

:

We have these, these

agreements with ourselves.

376

:

Well, I won't, I would never do X.

377

:

And some of those things are good, right?

378

:

You know, if you never do hard drugs,

like, that's, that's a great rule.

379

:

But what about like, oh, I wouldn't

ever take my kid out of school on a

380

:

Friday to, to take them to a, a park

or a movie or whatever the case may be.

381

:

Well, maybe that rule can

be broken to, to repair that

382

:

disconnection that you're having.

383

:

So I think thinking

outside of the box, right?

384

:

Thinking, thinking, what can you break?

385

:

What rules can you break?

386

:

And I know, Kyle, you have some amazing

questions that you ask your clients.

387

:

We're going to get into that.

388

:

Did you want to go get more coffee?

389

:

Yeah.

390

:

All right.

391

:

Kyle's back with his coffee.

392

:

Yeah.

393

:

And I, I just approved that,

that, that piece of paper existed.

394

:

It was sitting right by the coffee and

it says, I want to be in your life.

395

:

I understand you may be frustrated

if there's something that

396

:

you want to tell me I'm here.

397

:

And I just kept texting him

day after day after day.

398

:

Yeah.

399

:

So again, I don't, I don't,

I don't attribute it.

400

:

I mean, it's all in the stuff.

401

:

Like, I don't know what triggered in

his mind, but I'm sure the passing of

402

:

his grandmother was a big part of that.

403

:

Yeah.

404

:

I mean, grief is.

405

:

Grief can be a motivator for sure.

406

:

And that's love.

407

:

I, I think, you know, younger

people don't know aren't necessarily

408

:

equipped to to understand all

of the emotions they're having.

409

:

And so they may not even be able to

explain it themselves, but it would be

410

:

amazing at some point for you to, you

know, even if it's years from now to.

411

:

To find out if like, what, what that

catalyst was and, and, and if it, you

412

:

know, I think grief is something that

we all go through, we all have loss

413

:

in our lives and it can be helpful.

414

:

Well, I, yeah, you know, helpful,

powerful tool that, you know, a lot of

415

:

people think of grief as sadness, but

I think it's, it's sadness and it's

416

:

growth because it's uncomfortable.

417

:

And, you know, there's some grief that

I have of like the family, you know,

418

:

the family that I have today of the,

you know, my immediate family, those

419

:

three kids and my ex wife, that is not

the vision that I had for our family.

420

:

You know, I, and when I think about that

time just recently at the airport and how

421

:

fun it was, you know, we all got together,

but we're, we're fun as a group of five

422

:

for an incredibly limited amount of time.

423

:

Like, you know, we're, we're talking half

hour max, and then really we are better

424

:

off and I, and my wife, my ex wife and

I have talked about this, that going to

425

:

our older son, he really should have been

an only son, like whatever mentality he

426

:

has, whatever he was born with, like, I

think he just needed to be on his own.

427

:

So we, we had this parenting relationship,

that's what we called our relationship.

428

:

It was a parenting relationship.

429

:

So we lived in the same house.

430

:

We made a decision not to get divorced

because of financial concerns.

431

:

It didn't make sense.

432

:

We would, we would ruin both of our

lives if that was going to happen.

433

:

And so we lived in the same house,

we slept in different rooms.

434

:

We moved from, you know, one job

to the job that we, that I've

435

:

got now, and we moved to a house.

436

:

We lived in the same house, same

bedroom, because the house was

437

:

a big enough to have two rooms.

438

:

But we, we even went to counseling

and, and created this thing

439

:

called a parenting marriage.

440

:

I mean, for 12 of the 18 years that we

were married, 12 of them was in this

441

:

thing called a parenting marriage.

442

:

And then when we moved to the house that

they live in now, which was You know, two

443

:

years after we moved to here in Olympia.

444

:

That house had a basement And so

in the basement th was a bedroom

445

:

that Cohen can imagine this other,

y like a rec room and a bath

446

:

In the basement with Cohen as

a, he was probably in seventh

447

:

grade when he moved down there.

448

:

So from the seventh grade year till

his junior year in high school, we

449

:

lived together in the same space.

450

:

It was like me and him in an apartment

because it had its own separate interest.

451

:

I mean, it went up into the

kitchen and stuff, but it had

452

:

its own way to get in there.

453

:

And, you know, then I moved out

and moved into where I live now,

454

:

which is only about a mile away.

455

:

And so, you know, his, his pandemic

year when the pandemic hit, you

456

:

know, he didn't go to school.

457

:

He lived essentially in our

basement as a sob, as a freshman

458

:

in high school with me in there.

459

:

But, you know, I was at work and, you

know, we were all doing our thing.

460

:

I mean, he essentially had a

college experience from his

461

:

ninth grade year through today.

462

:

Like he's never gone.

463

:

I don't, I don't think he

ever goes to high school.

464

:

Most of his classes are online.

465

:

He does a running start thing.

466

:

So he has had a really Interesting,

you know, kind of thing.

467

:

And back to the individuality of what

I was talking about is that, you know,

468

:

I think he needed to be his own person.

469

:

Yeah.

470

:

So let's talk about strengths and

weaknesses, because I think it's

471

:

important to, to kind of be open about

the things we're working on, because

472

:

I know a lot of men and, and dads and,

and, and moms, you know, I know there's

473

:

the people find like mistakes and,

and things that maybe they're not good

474

:

at, they beat themselves up over them.

475

:

And, and the truth is we're

all working on something.

476

:

We're all works in progress and progress.

477

:

Isn't always linear.

478

:

So, oh God, it never is.

479

:

I want to, yeah.

480

:

Right.

481

:

So I want to talk first

about your strengths.

482

:

You said your biggest strength in your

relationships is centering others.

483

:

What does that mean to you?

484

:

How did you develop that skill and how

have you found that to be like a benefit

485

:

in, in the relationships that you have?

486

:

Yeah.

487

:

Great question.

488

:

I mean, kind of back to the

texting thing and making sure that

489

:

Brody knew that he is important.

490

:

And I think, you know when, when it

comes to A leadership kind of philosophy.

491

:

I mean, it's taken years to evolve

into the centering of others

492

:

because as a leader, you, you

are in charge, you are the boss.

493

:

I mean, in my case, I'm the president

of the, of the organization.

494

:

So I don't ever need to wait to talk like.

495

:

People are going to listen to me.

496

:

People listen to me whenever I talk.

497

:

So that is an extreme amount of privilege.

498

:

And so, so then my job isn't to

figure out how do I insert myself

499

:

because I can always be inserted.

500

:

So how do I get others?

501

:

The trick is really to not have my

positional power influence unnecessarily.

502

:

Anyone else?

503

:

Because the whole point, I mean,

I am, I am very, a very small part

504

:

of the magic that is the YMCA.

505

:

Of the experience that people

have, you know, we'll have like

506

:

52, 000 people interact with

the Y over the course of a year.

507

:

And of those 52, 000, very few

of them ever interact with me.

508

:

They're interacting with volunteers

and staff and other people.

509

:

And so my, the, the magic of leadership

is how do you get other people to go in

510

:

the same direction around this belonging

achievement relationships, it's about

511

:

driving the culture and the vision.

512

:

Of the impact that we make rather

than dictate every little thing.

513

:

So centering others, it's really about

trying to make people understand that they

514

:

have agency and ownership of the process,

and that takes a long time because one of

515

:

the myths in leadership, very much like

the stereotypes in in parenting is that,

516

:

you know, the leader has all the answers.

517

:

I've, I have very few answers.

518

:

I have way better questions than

answers, and my job is to help you lead.

519

:

I, in my keynote speech yesterday, I

was talking about that the leader's

520

:

job is to help others succeed.

521

:

And if, if I help others

succeed, then I too will succeed.

522

:

A hundred percent.

523

:

Yeah.

524

:

One of the guys I follow Dan Martell,

he talks a lot about how he sees it as.

525

:

You know, if you're running a company,

YMCA, if you're a leader in any capacity

526

:

and in your home, of course, as well,

the vision that you have is your vision

527

:

and anyone that is in a, in a, in a role

that isn't the, the, the quote unquote

528

:

boss, they have their own visions of

what they want their life to look like.

529

:

And it's, and it's not necessarily.

530

:

That they don't agree with the vision

of the YMCA or, or the company that

531

:

you're running, but they also have

their own visions for themselves.

532

:

And if you're not supporting,

so Dan Martell talks about if

533

:

you're not supporting every single

person's vision, then you're

534

:

not doing your job as a leader.

535

:

Because if you're, if you're not

able to say like, Hey, what can I

536

:

do to help you achieve your vision?

537

:

Totally.

538

:

Right?

539

:

So it's a really powerful way

to think, but I don't think a

540

:

lot of leaders Think that way.

541

:

Am I, am I wrong in that?

542

:

Well, yeah.

543

:

I mean, that's where radical

fucking leadership came from.

544

:

I mean, when I, so when the pandemic

happened and the whole, you know, I'm,

545

:

I'm big into the anti racism thing.

546

:

And it is definitely, I think the thing

that is dividing us the most is, is the

547

:

way that we, our racist past and his

current way that we go about things.

548

:

So back in the late 2022, I told

myself, okay, I'm going to try this

549

:

LinkedIn and I'm going to start posting

about radical fucking leadership.

550

:

I didn't call it that.

551

:

I just started posting things about

centering others, raising the bar, being

552

:

anti racist, wearing anti racist shirts.

553

:

And doing that in public, and I

definitely, you know, back in:

554

:

started my anti racist racism journey.

555

:

So it's been a long time since

I've been doing it, and again,

556

:

nothing is linear about it.

557

:

I mean, I make mistakes all the time,

I cause a tremendous amount of harm.

558

:

Like, all of those things are true,

and I'm still at it, and I'm still

559

:

working at it, and I'm still doing it.

560

:

And we've incorporated into my why,

and we've done some tremendous things.

561

:

We're the fastest growing why.

562

:

In the country out of 700

different wise from:

563

:

And that's through the global pandemic

after losing half of our revenue.

564

:

So we are, we are killing it and

we're doing it because of the

565

:

diversity that we've been able to.

566

:

We were 110 year old

organization and up until:

567

:

One, we've been all white

led and all white governed

568

:

for that 110 years until now.

569

:

And we'll never be that way again,

because now we've put things in to the

570

:

bylaws that prevent that from happening.

571

:

But to get to that point was.

572

:

I mean, talk about non linear.

573

:

Oh my gosh.

574

:

And talk about board meetings that

I, you know, I was a suit and tie

575

:

wearing guy up until probably 2018

576

:

and board meetings today

are vastly different.

577

:

They're not like a corporate setting.

578

:

And, and in fact, we're going to do,

we do this every other board meeting.

579

:

Now we have a whole 90 minute board

meeting that is, has nothing to

580

:

do with running the organization,

like in the traditional sense.

581

:

And it's all about talking about anti

racism in white supremacy culture.

582

:

Like it's totally different and

educating, you know, everybody that's

583

:

in the boardroom about those things.

584

:

So remind there was a reason that I was

telling that, what was the question again?

585

:

I think, well, we just we talked about

your strength in centering others, so

586

:

that's fine that talking about this.

587

:

Well, and that's, so that's really

how it, how it's evolved even more

588

:

of centering others because now you

have, again, when you're talking about

589

:

visions and bringing people together

and the diversity and the, when, when

590

:

marginalized people are included back

to raising the bar and and belonging.

591

:

They're not just invited to

acclimate to the current culture.

592

:

They're there to help build the

culture and co create it together.

593

:

That's a, that is centering

in a way that is very rare.

594

:

Back to what you said is, you

know, do leaders lead that way?

595

:

Oh.

596

:

And so then I started posting on LinkedIn

and then in January of:

597

:

I started radical fucking leadership.

598

:

And that was.

599

:

Specifically to the point that

you were making that leaders

600

:

were not leading appropriately.

601

:

I mean, most white males.

602

:

So out of those 700 Y's that

I told you about all but 40

603

:

of them are led by white men.

604

:

Yeah.

605

:

That's incredible.

606

:

I don't know what the percentage is there,

but it's 90 or 95 percent or something.

607

:

And so if you look at corporate America

and if you look at, I mean, it's just the

608

:

New York times, maybe in 2018 or 2017.

609

:

Ran a full page ad that somehow

had to pick the photos of the

610

:

top 100 businesses or companies.

611

:

And every single person

on that thing was white.

612

:

And then if you look at the history

of the presidency in the United

613

:

States, you know, there's, there's a

lot of presidents and one black one.

614

:

In fact, Barack's right here with us.

615

:

Here we go.

616

:

So we're talking about anti racism and

I don't know if everyone listening isn't

617

:

necessarily even familiar with that term.

618

:

Can you explain what that means?

619

:

Yeah.

620

:

A whole bunch of people have written

a bunch of topics about what it is.

621

:

So anti racism is probably a

step further than a typical

622

:

DEI or equity focused thing.

623

:

And, and I am not an expert, so I want

to be super duper clear about that.

624

:

What I've done is I've taken anti

racism principles and incorporated

625

:

into my leadership development

philosophy, both within my Y and

626

:

my own personal leadership stuff.

627

:

But anti racism is really about the

action to dismantle systems that

628

:

are racist and oppressive in nature.

629

:

So it's, it's not just, yeah, you

can tolerate diversity or difference.

630

:

It's, You're, you actively understand

that racism works in four quadrants, and

631

:

it's systematized, and it's purposeful,

and it was intentionally built, and

632

:

it's intentionally maintained, and

without you doing something to, to

633

:

dismantle it or, or create new systems,

then you're essentially complicit in

634

:

the racism that exists, because you're

not doing anything to change it.

635

:

And so when you think about

things like redlining and the G.

636

:

I.

637

:

Bill and, you know, homeownership.

638

:

I mean, if you look at somebody asked

me the other day, like, why do we focus

639

:

so much on anti racism in the Y and I

said, well, the Y is really about helping

640

:

people develop to their fullest potential.

641

:

That's the goal, but, and it's for

everybody, but if the system itself

642

:

that you are in does not allow you

to reach that fullest potential,

643

:

because the thing is stacked against

you, then it's our job to recognize

644

:

what that is and help tear that down.

645

:

What would you say to someone who's

like, that sounds like, you know,

646

:

I can't do anything about that.

647

:

It's like you said, it's systematized,

it's intentional, there's powers

648

:

well far beyond our reach.

649

:

What can I do in my own personal

life to, to be anti racist?

650

:

Yeah, great question.

651

:

The first thing that this is going to

sound maybe trite or something, but

652

:

the first thing is you got to commit.

653

:

You got to understand your why, W H Y.

654

:

Why do you want to be anti racist?

655

:

So once you answer that question, and

then you can commit to doing things.

656

:

Then you need to educate yourself.

657

:

Don't rely on other people, other

marginalized people to teach you,

658

:

you know, understand your biases.

659

:

There's, there's a shit ton to read.

660

:

I mean, just go on LinkedIn

and start looking around.

661

:

I mean, there's so many people to follow.

662

:

So educate.

663

:

So the first is understand your why.

664

:

Second is commit.

665

:

Third is educate yourself.

666

:

And then maybe the next one

after that is listen and be

667

:

okay with being uncomfortable.

668

:

So back to what you said, you,

you can do a lot of listening,

669

:

especially in, and then maybe

the fifth one is to be proximate.

670

:

I'm, I'm no different than you.

671

:

Pacific Northwest is not a diverse place.

672

:

And, and within, within the area

that I live, it was explicitly

673

:

made so that black and brown

people could not live where I live.

674

:

That was done all over.

675

:

That was done all over the country.

676

:

Right.

677

:

And I'm, I'm that, that was the

point that I was making is that so,

678

:

so the fifth thing is get proximate,

get in, get in spaces, be in spaces

679

:

where you're not the dominant voice.

680

:

And this goes back to the

question that you asked me before.

681

:

Which is centering others.

682

:

Well, one of the ways that I, that my

leadership has evolved is because of my

683

:

deep dive into the anti racism stuff is

that because of that, that started to let

684

:

me understand that the lived experience

of people that are not like me with a

685

:

ton of white male privilege, they have

an amazing amount of gifts that they

686

:

could bring to the world and to the

Y and to just, you know, communities.

687

:

But they don't get a chance

because of the systems.

688

:

And so my job is to be in relation

with people that don't look like me,

689

:

don't think like me, don't act like me

and don't have the privilege that I,

690

:

and then to center that you could also

say that from an agency perspective,

691

:

you know, kids are the same way.

692

:

Young kids don't have a lot of agents.

693

:

So when we think about putting kids

in leadership positions and, and

694

:

teaching leadership skills to kids.

695

:

We want to, we want to de center the, the

adult voice in the room and let kids talk,

696

:

because if we do that, we, if, if we do

that, they will say some amazing things.

697

:

The Y has this one program called

Youth in Government, which is a program

698

:

for high school kids that learn the

ins and outs of state government,

699

:

and it's a school year program.

700

:

So.

701

:

You know, in September they start learning

how to, how to write bills, how to

702

:

debate bills, how to do all this stuff.

703

:

Right.

704

:

And then the school year

goes on and it gets to may.

705

:

And this happens in every

Y around the country.

706

:

Then in may they take

over the state Capitol.

707

:

And in our case, in the state of

Washington, like 500 kids will come

708

:

here in May to take over the Capitol and

there'll be all the elected positions like

709

:

governor, lieutenant governor, all that,

and, and senators and representatives,

710

:

and they'll have a five day mock

legislation that they'll debate bills,

711

:

they'll go to committees and they'll do

all this stuff and ask all these bills.

712

:

And then, you know, the

governor will sign them.

713

:

And then occasionally the real governor

and the, and the student governor.

714

:

The, the real governor sometimes signs

a couple of those bills in the law.

715

:

It's amazing.

716

:

That's a cool program for sure.

717

:

Yeah.

718

:

When you, when you take kids and you,

and the coolest part of why that program

719

:

is so powerful is while there are adults

there, they're decent in the process.

720

:

Like they don't talk, they don't, you

know, the, the Robert's rules of order

721

:

that govern, you know, government, like

when that happens, they don't talk.

722

:

Like they're doing it.

723

:

The parliamentarian is a kid and they're,

you know, making sure that people

724

:

are doing the rules and you've got

to, you can't just walk on the floor.

725

:

I mean, it's, it's a thing.

726

:

It's, it's wildly cool.

727

:

I love it.

728

:

I want to shift gears into

one of your weaknesses.

729

:

So I'm a huge fan of the idea

of slowing down to speed up.

730

:

And you, you noted that you struggle

sometimes with slowing down and

731

:

allowing and allowing other space.

732

:

So tell me more about like that struggle.

733

:

What you're doing, what

you're doing to improve it.

734

:

And

735

:

so the powerful question you

put in your notes is what is

736

:

it like to experience you?

737

:

And that question.

738

:

In the work that I do in relationships

is so powerful because we often

739

:

don't think outside of ourselves.

740

:

It's ego driven, our decisions.

741

:

We think we're, you know, we're

always looking at like, am I right?

742

:

Am I wrong?

743

:

And rarely are we really

being introspective.

744

:

And I say this generally speaking to

the point where we're like, Oh, You

745

:

know, there's other perspectives and

what is it like to experience me?

746

:

And what can I, how can I show up

to make that experience better?

747

:

So I love that question, but back to

my, my initial question is to slow

748

:

down, speed up, you know, you said you

struggle with slowing down, talk about

749

:

what you're doing to work on that.

750

:

Yeah.

751

:

And my, in my early time of leadership,

again, I think it was because of, you

752

:

know, who, who my mentors were and, and

what I was taught about leadership was.

753

:

You know, you, you need to be right.

754

:

You need to, you need to have all

the answers, you know, people need to

755

:

look, you need, you need to be tough.

756

:

You need to be strong.

757

:

You need to not show emotion, like typical

male dominant, you know, stereotypes.

758

:

And, you know, that worked for me, but

I had a, but I also had a criticism

759

:

in pretty much from a early age of

leadership where people would tell me,

760

:

you know, people that were my bosses or,

or other people, like the knock on me

761

:

was like, you don't wait for your people.

762

:

Like you get an idea and you're,

you've already run with it and

763

:

your people don't know what to

do because you're so far ahead.

764

:

Yeah.

765

:

So you need to, you need to just lead

differently and, you know, and this

766

:

goes back to the vision thing that you

were talking about is that, yeah, it's

767

:

not just my vision, it's our vision.

768

:

What's our vision of our why or

our thing or whatever, or the

769

:

vision of our family or whatever.

770

:

And so you do need to slow down.

771

:

So now what I've, well, one,

I have to think about it.

772

:

And same thing with centering others.

773

:

It's not something that I wake up every

day and it just is, it is, it is a, it

774

:

requires me to think about how I'm going

to show up and how I'm going to lead.

775

:

So it's, it's not just a go and do it.

776

:

It's like, I, I want to hear from

particular people and if I am, and I

777

:

need to make sure that those people

get voice in this process, so I can't

778

:

be the typical leader that I am.

779

:

And now go back to your question about,

you know, what's it like to experience

780

:

men, what's it like to be on the other

side of me, you can imagine maybe

781

:

from this call that I am an outward

extroverted and like my thing, the

782

:

thing that works for me is the energy,

passion, joy, and just glass apple.

783

:

I can't wait to say hi to you, hug

you, grab hold of you, do whatever

784

:

it is that, you know, makes me, me.

785

:

And you can imagine how, you know,

my high school age, teenage people

786

:

think that that is not cool.

787

:

So I show up in this track meet,

like I, everybody knows me in town.

788

:

Like I'm the white guy, like literally

everybody, everybody knows who I am.

789

:

I can't go anywhere without

somebody doing something to me.

790

:

So not only that, I, you

know, I have a lot of tattoos.

791

:

I wear these crazy shirts that people

think like, what is he talking about?

792

:

And then I have, you know,

different colored glasses.

793

:

I've got this big beard.

794

:

I drive a big sprinter van that's

decked out with mountain biking.

795

:

Like when I show up, I'm

there, like people know it.

796

:

And you can imagine that

that's not super great.

797

:

Now that my son is a senior,

it's a little better.

798

:

He, you know, he's his own dude now.

799

:

So, but yesterday, like I show

up, it was finally sunny here.

800

:

It's rains a lot here and it

was finally sunny yesterday.

801

:

And so we're at this track

meet at the high school.

802

:

And again, like I've coached half

of the people on this track team.

803

:

And there's people everywhere

and it's sunny and it's great.

804

:

And I show up and I've got these,

you know, really cool, powerful

805

:

orange glasses, sunglasses on.

806

:

And everyone's coming up to me, you

know, high fiving and hugging, and

807

:

we can't wait to watch a little thing

and dads and moms are coming up and

808

:

everybody's there and it's great.

809

:

But again, so when I think about

going to that track meet, I

810

:

think, how do I tone it down?

811

:

What do I need to do?

812

:

To not center myself because

that's where I get my juice.

813

:

I love people.

814

:

Like literally I am way better

when I'm with people than when

815

:

I'm without like yesterday, when

I was given that keynote speech.

816

:

I was on cloud nine.

817

:

I mean, it was, it was awesome.

818

:

Everything about it filled me up.

819

:

Well, so I need to pay attention to that

when I'm around my children as an example,

820

:

or back to the point when you when you

were talking about, you know, visions

821

:

of others and stuff like that, when I go

into my senior staff, how am I going to

822

:

be to make sure that I draw people out?

823

:

Can I be the typical outward going

gregarious, fun loving guy that I

824

:

am, or do I need to tone that down?

825

:

And then the more that I have to

talk, but I still need that, right?

826

:

Like I need to get

something out of it as well.

827

:

It's not just one sided.

828

:

So, so that's a, it's a good question.

829

:

That question about what's it like

to experience you as a good one

830

:

to have in the back of your head.

831

:

Cause it's a bold thing.

832

:

It's like, you can't

just subvert yourself to.

833

:

others needs all the time.

834

:

Like that's not gonna work either.

835

:

You have to get you.

836

:

I made this thing the other day too.

837

:

You know, when the plane's going down

and the oxygen mask comes out, you

838

:

got to put it on first to help others.

839

:

You can't, because you're not going

to be any good if you can't breathe.

840

:

That's right.

841

:

Yeah, and it's about the authenticity

piece too, because if you, if you're

842

:

muting, and I think as, as men, I

know for myself, I've struggled with

843

:

this for a large majority of my life.

844

:

It's, it's the muting and the

abbreviating of your own characteristics,

845

:

your own traits that are maybe

not widely accepted by Okay.

846

:

Society the way we're told to be and to

fit in to a certain mold, a certain box

847

:

versus, Hey, I just want to be myself and

, whatever that means, but like you're

848

:

pointing out, there's a fine line between

certain energy that you're bringing to

849

:

a certain room versus, Completely going

the opposite direction and, not being

850

:

authentic and people can see that too.

851

:

That's something for the listeners

to really think about as well.

852

:

What is it like to experience you in

your relationship in your home as a dad,

853

:

as a husband, as a, as a partner, as a

business owner, as you know, whatever the

854

:

roles you play, not all of those roles

require the same energy all the time.

855

:

And can you balance it out in

certain ways at certain times?

856

:

So that you are centering others, so

that you are slowing down to speed up.

857

:

Expect me to be that.

858

:

I mean, for the most part, I think what's

made me successful is that, you know,

859

:

outward thing and getting a lot of people

fired up about what it is that we do.

860

:

Well, and, and to that point though, Kyle,

I know you're big on this, the introverts,

861

:

the people that are not like you.

862

:

Totally.

863

:

Have just as much to

offer in a different way.

864

:

Yes.

865

:

And so it's like, just because, the

way you operate is it's the way you

866

:

operate doesn't make it right, wrong.

867

:

It's not about that.

868

:

It's just how that's your authentic self.

869

:

And that's beautiful.

870

:

But someone else's authentic self

may be completely different, does

871

:

not mean that they don't have value.

872

:

They don't bring to the table.

873

:

Right.

874

:

Right.

875

:

And so that, that's what, so back to the

paying attention that you're spot on here.

876

:

So my job as a leader is to

understand that globally of

877

:

all the people in my orbit.

878

:

And now, situationally, how am I

interacting with that group of people?

879

:

Because they still need

me as a leader too.

880

:

And I need them.

881

:

And so you have this relationship.

882

:

So I I'm thinking of specific

people, two specific people that

883

:

have contributed greatly to some

key insights about what we're doing.

884

:

And they would have

never in a million years.

885

:

And they didn't say what

they thought in a meeting.

886

:

I had to go to them individually, sit and

talk to them, build relationships over

887

:

time before they ever told me they didn't,

they weren't going to ever tell me.

888

:

Thanks.

889

:

And, and they weren't things that were

aligned with the way we were going.

890

:

They were like a different thing.

891

:

And it was like, Oh

yeah, that's a good idea.

892

:

Let's incorporate that into this thing.

893

:

Like tell me more.

894

:

And so that would happen.

895

:

And then we had some other

folks that have, have moved

896

:

on and doing other things now.

897

:

But.

898

:

You know, their way to get to me

would be to email me and say, Hey,

899

:

you know, when we were talking

about this, you said a, B, and C.

900

:

And I wonder if you've thought

about X, Y, and Z and it,

901

:

you know, it's, it's awesome.

902

:

But to get to that point though, again,

when someone wants to talk to the CEO,

903

:

this is less though now because I've been

there for eight years and people know me.

904

:

And so I've tried to

break down that, that.

905

:

You know, positional power and,

you know, people can come into my

906

:

office and, you know, they can just

talk to me like a regular person

907

:

now, but early on, it was like, Ooh,

I have to talk to the CEO, right?

908

:

Eric.

909

:

I got to give you the floor and

see if you got anything because I

910

:

know you've been quiet over there.

911

:

Yeah, I'd actually

912

:

you said something earlier that I've

never heard anybody say before in my

913

:

life, and I'd like you to expand on that.

914

:

But before that.

915

:

I just want to say that you're, you were

talking about your relationship with your

916

:

son Brody and how you kept the lines of

communication open, even though he wasn't

917

:

responding the way you wanted him to.

918

:

And then eventually he did.

919

:

That's a really nice thing for me to hear.

920

:

Considering my daughter is

going to be a teenager soon.

921

:

So remember, keep the lines

of communication open.

922

:

She's not going to respond how I want to.

923

:

Of course, as a teenager, our

scope, the camera is zoomed in.

924

:

Just keep it open, keep it open.

925

:

And hopefully one day she will.

926

:

So that was huge for me.

927

:

Thank you.

928

:

Yeah.

929

:

Cool.

930

:

The thing you said earlier was like

about setting a culture in the house.

931

:

Like I hear about that in companies,

but setting a culture in the house is

932

:

something I've never heard anybody say.

933

:

Can you expand a little bit on that?

934

:

Because I'm not a leader.

935

:

I sit here in my little

closet all day by myself.

936

:

And so that idea is kind

of mind blowing to me.

937

:

I'd like to challenge, before Kyle

answers, I want to challenge you and say

938

:

you are a leader because you're a father.

939

:

I was going to say the same thing.

940

:

So you definitely are a leader.

941

:

You may not think of yourself that

way, but trust me, you're a leader.

942

:

And, and I think, you know, back to

the, so you have a culture in your house

943

:

whether you intentionally built it or not.

944

:

So when I think about culture, and

this is kind of a new thinking for

945

:

me over the last five or six years

is the intentionality with building

946

:

the way that we're going to treat

each other and the way that we're

947

:

going to, you know, manage ourselves,

you know, in a, in a company is.

948

:

So I call them leadership guiding

principles, but what we called

949

:

them in our household was You

know just rules for engagement.

950

:

How are we going to talk to each other?

951

:

How are we gonna?

952

:

I mean they were the same thing They were

just principles that we we talked about

953

:

So one of the things that we did it I

learned at the summer camp was that we

954

:

did things these things called high points

So like a culture in our house was that

955

:

we were going to eat dinner together as

a family You So that, that would be an

956

:

example of one of the things that we did.

957

:

And at that dinner, we did these things

called we called them high points.

958

:

So every person went around and

said, you know, what they did

959

:

that they were proud of that day.

960

:

And then as an example, I

incorporated that into my coaching.

961

:

So at the end of every practice,

every kid, no matter how good or bad

962

:

they were, got to say what they were

proud about and what they wanted

963

:

to work on for the next practice.

964

:

So those are examples of, of things.

965

:

I'm trying to think of another

example that we had, like

966

:

the culture of our house,

967

:

if we had, you know, bedtime routine,

so think about bedtime routines,

968

:

think about, you know, we're going

to eat dinner as a family or this was

969

:

important to us, or we were gonna,

you know, talk about this subject.

970

:

So those are the types of things that I

talk about when I think about culture.

971

:

And being intentional about it.

972

:

And at the end of the day, you

know, it's back to the lines of

973

:

communication and keeping those open.

974

:

Like he didn't respond the way that

I wanted him to, you know, we were

975

:

probably successful for 12 or so

odd years of eating dinner together.

976

:

Like that was a big deal.

977

:

Like that made an impression.

978

:

I don't know if

979

:

that answers your question.

980

:

Yeah.

981

:

I think the intentionality of it

is is pretty huge., Did you build

982

:

it or is it just kind of happening?

983

:

Yeah.

984

:

No, that's, that's a, that's an

interesting thing for me to think about.

985

:

Yeah.

986

:

Something I work on with clients is

bringing in business fundamentals into

987

:

the home because If you think about

it, and this comes straight out of

988

:

Eve Rotsky's book, Fair Play, your home

is your most important organization.

989

:

So if you think about your family, your

home life as an organization of people,

990

:

which is, is essentially what it is,

991

:

then why are we not using some basic

business fundamentals things like annual

992

:

goals, weekly or monthly meetings,

core values, mission statements.

993

:

These are all things that We neglect

to do for our families, a lot of us,

994

:

but if you bring that in, if you write

a mission statement, or you write some

995

:

core values, some shared core values

that you and your partner have, , that's

996

:

super powerful because on the difficult

days, on the days that feel like

997

:

You know, it's all it's just crazy.

998

:

Like whatever's happening in your life.

999

:

We all have those moments or even seasons

of, of difficulties you can reflect

:

00:59:40,724 --> 00:59:42,514

back to, what are our core values?

:

00:59:42,724 --> 00:59:44,134

What are our driving forces?

:

00:59:44,214 --> 00:59:45,824

But I do love that idea.

:

00:59:45,834 --> 00:59:45,854

Yeah.

:

00:59:46,429 --> 00:59:50,499

Kyle because it does have a culture,

whether you design it or not.

:

00:59:50,529 --> 00:59:54,939

And also communication, which is, we

all know is one of the hardest things

:

00:59:54,939 --> 00:59:59,849

for people to do is happening regardless

of whether you want it to or not.

:

00:59:59,849 --> 01:00:02,979

I mean, you cannot, if you, if you

live with people, you're communicating,

:

01:00:02,999 --> 01:00:04,049

even if you're not talking.

:

01:00:04,049 --> 01:00:04,299

Right.

:

01:00:04,699 --> 01:00:06,859

So you may as well work on it.

:

01:00:06,859 --> 01:00:08,849

You may as well intentionally.

:

01:00:09,769 --> 01:00:13,549

Practice your communication skills

to get better because you're doing it

:

01:00:13,769 --> 01:00:18,559

anyway, so you could either suck at it

and continue to suck at it, which, by the

:

01:00:18,559 --> 01:00:22,839

way, we're not born with these skills,

but they can be developed and I'm still

:

01:00:22,839 --> 01:00:26,009

working on mine and I'm, and I'm a coach.

:

01:00:26,039 --> 01:00:29,619

I coach people doing this, but it

doesn't mean I am perfect at this.

:

01:00:29,799 --> 01:00:31,549

Yeah, that was the imposter syndrome.

:

01:00:31,549 --> 01:00:35,639

It's like, I'm teaching leadership skills

yesterday to a group of 50, you know,

:

01:00:35,879 --> 01:00:37,509

people that are managing other people.

:

01:00:38,109 --> 01:00:40,049

And I work at it all the time.

:

01:00:40,050 --> 01:00:42,329

I mean, and I don't

get it right every day.

:

01:00:43,419 --> 01:00:47,289

I mean, there's many days that I do

things that I shouldn't do, right.

:

01:00:47,299 --> 01:00:49,039

Where I don't listen as well as I should.

:

01:00:50,149 --> 01:00:50,749

A hundred percent.

:

01:00:51,139 --> 01:00:53,829

You're not going to, you're not going

to, if you were perfect, if you were

:

01:00:53,829 --> 01:00:58,099

perfect hitting your, every target you

ever had, I mean, it's like, it's just

:

01:00:58,099 --> 01:00:59,734

an unreasonable expectation for anyone.

:

01:00:59,734 --> 01:01:03,299

And if you're putting that type of burden

on yourself, that's where I think a lot

:

01:01:03,299 --> 01:01:07,759

of people struggle is they, they feel

like I'm not hitting this, this target.

:

01:01:08,349 --> 01:01:11,349

This high bar that I set for myself.

:

01:01:11,349 --> 01:01:13,149

So I'm going to, I'm

not even going to try.

:

01:01:13,159 --> 01:01:15,469

And it's like, no, it's not linear.

:

01:01:15,479 --> 01:01:17,569

You know, you're going to go up

and you're going to go down and

:

01:01:17,569 --> 01:01:18,709

you're gonna go back up and down.

:

01:01:18,919 --> 01:01:22,809

And it's, it's a, it's onward progress,

forward progress, progress over

:

01:01:22,809 --> 01:01:30,128

perfection, and be willing to be willing

to, I got a new thing that I'm going to

:

01:01:30,128 --> 01:01:35,109

say, just be willing to fail, be willing

to mess up, you know, be willing to mess

:

01:01:35,109 --> 01:01:37,159

up and, and take accountability for that.

:

01:01:38,869 --> 01:01:40,149

And own it.

:

01:01:40,419 --> 01:01:44,769

The, the ownership mindset that I teach

isn't only about, you know, owning

:

01:01:45,349 --> 01:01:48,409

your part in your role in the house

and taking care of the things around

:

01:01:48,409 --> 01:01:52,249

the house, that sort of thing, like the

Fair Play Book teaches, but it's about

:

01:01:52,249 --> 01:01:54,139

owning, you know, your mistakes as well.

:

01:01:54,819 --> 01:01:55,809

Last two questions.

:

01:01:55,869 --> 01:01:57,489

First of all, Kyle, where

can people find you?

:

01:01:57,489 --> 01:01:59,849

I know you're on LinkedIn, Kyle cro.

:

01:02:00,824 --> 01:02:02,039

I don't, I don't have a website.

:

01:02:02,039 --> 01:02:02,939

Go to LinkedIn.

:

01:02:03,499 --> 01:02:04,549

Type in my name.

:

01:02:04,609 --> 01:02:05,119

I'm there.

:

01:02:05,119 --> 01:02:06,289

I'm, I post every day.

:

01:02:06,884 --> 01:02:09,394

So that you can find me

there, you can reach out.

:

01:02:10,044 --> 01:02:14,244

So, so the best way for people to hire

you for coaching is to just click on

:

01:02:14,254 --> 01:02:16,054

LinkedIn and there's a link right there.

:

01:02:16,294 --> 01:02:21,264

Perfect DMU and, if you're a CEO

specifically in executive leadership

:

01:02:21,744 --> 01:02:22,934

that's Kyle's bread and butter.

:

01:02:22,934 --> 01:02:27,894

And he's got a, if you haven't been

able to tell from our conversation, a

:

01:02:27,894 --> 01:02:31,284

very unique and powerful perspective.

:

01:02:31,304 --> 01:02:34,574

And I think you can certainly

benefit from engaging with Kyle.

:

01:02:34,584 --> 01:02:37,474

So last question I have for you, Kyle, is.

:

01:02:38,579 --> 01:02:42,759

What would you say to all the dads

listening right now that may be

:

01:02:42,849 --> 01:02:46,859

struggling with their own kind of

personal struggles, whether it be

:

01:02:46,889 --> 01:02:48,739

disconnection from their partner.

:

01:02:49,109 --> 01:02:53,029

I know you went through a divorce,

disconnection from their kids.

:

01:02:53,029 --> 01:02:56,599

You told a personal story about

that, that you navigated through.

:

01:02:57,489 --> 01:03:00,729

Just feeling, you know, maybe

interrupted, helpless, confused.

:

01:03:01,189 --> 01:03:02,529

Maybe like they're not enough.

:

01:03:02,589 --> 01:03:05,929

What are your words of wisdom

for men in that situation?

:

01:03:06,849 --> 01:03:10,509

Don't give up is probably the best one.

:

01:03:11,288 --> 01:03:14,589

And that, you know, just keep,

keep working at it again.

:

01:03:14,599 --> 01:03:20,529

You're not going to get every single

thing to come out perfect, but you know,

:

01:03:20,538 --> 01:03:26,629

back to my own story of knowing that,

you know, can you, can you look in the

:

01:03:26,629 --> 01:03:31,929

mirror and say, you did everything you

could to rekindle the relationship or

:

01:03:31,929 --> 01:03:35,979

do whatever you needed to do to make

whatever next is going to happen.

:

01:03:37,734 --> 01:03:38,444

That's what I would say.

:

01:03:39,004 --> 01:03:39,294

Yeah.

:

01:03:39,344 --> 01:03:39,984

That's awesome.

:

01:03:40,644 --> 01:03:41,514

That's a great question.

:

01:03:41,564 --> 01:03:43,994

I, I'm a huge fan of

asking yourself questions.

:

01:03:44,234 --> 01:03:47,744

You can journal spend some time

outside, you know, go, go for a walk.

:

01:03:48,284 --> 01:03:53,694

But I think the biggest impact you can

have as a, as a dad is to find community.

:

01:03:53,994 --> 01:03:58,634

In your local area or online where

you can talk to other men about some

:

01:03:58,634 --> 01:04:01,564

of the things we've been talking

about today and ask questions and be

:

01:04:01,564 --> 01:04:04,764

vulnerable and be willing to share that

vulnerability and ask those questions so

:

01:04:04,764 --> 01:04:06,294

that you can get help when you need it.

:

01:04:06,304 --> 01:04:11,864

Cause Kyle, you know, men are told there

that if they ask for help, they're weak.

:

01:04:11,904 --> 01:04:17,304

And that's completely, that's one of the

biggest lies we're told in our lives.

:

01:04:17,364 --> 01:04:19,354

And unfortunately, a lot of us believe it.

:

01:04:19,484 --> 01:04:23,004

So if you need help, find

somebody that you trust.

:

01:04:23,579 --> 01:04:26,419

Find community online, find

somebody in your community, go to

:

01:04:26,419 --> 01:04:28,179

the Y, you know, go where I go.

:

01:04:28,179 --> 01:04:30,579

Oh yeah, join your local Y,

that's always a good idea.

:

01:04:30,709 --> 01:04:31,399

Yeah, yeah.

:

01:04:31,439 --> 01:04:35,209

So, you know, there's, there's

definitely places to, to go in that

:

01:04:35,209 --> 01:04:38,059

you can find other men that are

willing to have these conversations.

:

01:04:38,059 --> 01:04:40,439

Kyle, I really want to thank

you again for your time.

:

01:04:40,439 --> 01:04:42,649

I know we went a little over

time, so I appreciate you

:

01:04:42,669 --> 01:04:44,299

being so generous with that.

:

01:04:44,719 --> 01:04:45,038

Yeah.

:

01:04:45,038 --> 01:04:45,449

All right.

:

01:04:45,509 --> 01:04:46,559

Have a great day, everybody.

:

01:04:46,559 --> 01:04:47,529

Good to meet you, Eric.

Next Episode All Episodes Previous Episode

Support The Dads Interrupted Podcast

Creating quality content takes time, equipment, and lots of coffee. Your support helps us continue bringing you authentic conversations about fatherhood. Join our community of supporters and help us grow the show. Every contribution makes a difference!
Buy Us a Coffee
A
We haven’t had any Tips yet :( Maybe you could be the first!

Listen for free

Show artwork for Dads Interrupted

About the Podcast

Dads Interrupted
Real Talk on Fatherhood, Relationships, & Growth
What does it mean to be a good man—and a present dad—in a world that never taught you how?
Dads Interrupted is a podcast about fatherhood, masculinity, and the journey to becoming the man your family actually needs. Hosted by men’s coach and dad of 12+ years Fred Van Riper, Dads Interrupted dives deep into the conversations men aren’t having—but desperately need.

We explore what it means to lead with purpose, break free from outdated roles, and build the kind of relationships that change everything—at home, at work, and in your own head.

You’ll hear honest, real-world stories from men navigating fatherhood, marriage, emotional growth, and the myths that hold us back. As a Certified Fair Play Facilitator, Fred offers tools for shared responsibility, emotional leadership, and creating a home that works for everyone.

This isn’t about losing power—it’s about gaining something far greater: Respect. Intimacy. Legacy.

If you’re ready to break the cycle and build something better—this podcast is your starting point.

Support the show here so we can keep bringing you powerful conversations:
https://dads-interrupted.captivate.fm/

Visit https://www.seatatthetablecoaching.com/ for more tools and coaching resources.
Support This Show

About your host

Profile picture for Frederick Van Riper

Frederick Van Riper

Hi, I'm Fred, a coach, father, and the creator of Seat at the Table Coaching.

I work with men who are doing a lot right on paper…

but still feel like they’re missing at home, stuck in their heads, or showing up as someone they don’t quite recognize.

This pod is where we strip it back.

No lectures. No performance. Just tools, stories, and real conversations to help you lead with more presence—without selling your soul in the process.