Chaos, Cults and the Importance of Adaptability with Wade Hetrick

Speaker: 00:00:00

All right.

2

: 00:00:00

So our guest today on the Dads

Interrupted podcast is Wade Hetrick.

3

: 00:00:04

Wade is a team building and

leadership expert focused

4

: 00:00:07

on 360 degree communication.

5

: 00:00:10

Wade has served in the U.

6

: 00:00:12

S.

7

: 00:00:12

Air Force and has worked with

some of the most elite teams

8

: 00:00:15

in the Department of Defense.

9

: 00:00:17

He has recruited, built, and led

teams of five to 500 people in

10

: 00:00:21

combat and training operations.

11

: 00:00:23

He has over 3, 500 flight hours in

the C 17 mostly, and Wade is married.

12

: 00:00:30

And is the stepdad to his son Harvey?

13

: 00:00:33

And perhaps most exciting is

that he and his wife, Katie,

14

: 00:00:36

are expecting a new arrival,

another baby boy this coming year.

15

: 00:00:40

So, Wade, welcome to the

Dads Interrupted Podcast.

16

: 00:00:44

Thanks for having me.

17

: 00:00:45

First surprise, it's a girl, actually.

18

: 00:00:47

We just found out.

19

: 00:00:50

Wow.

20

: 00:00:51

We were very surprised.

21

: 00:00:53

The first blood test we did said it

was a boy and then we went to the OB

22

: 00:00:57

and they called back a couple of days

later and said, you should probably

23

: 00:01:02

reconsider the names that you picked.

24

: 00:01:06

Well, that's regardless, amazing

news, obviously super exciting.

25

: 00:01:10

It's phenomenal to have you

on the, on this episode.

26

: 00:01:12

Today we're going to be talking about

the power of effective communication

27

: 00:01:16

and the pitfalls of poor communication.

28

: 00:01:19

So stay tuned to the rest of the episode.

29

: 00:01:21

But first question I want to ask is

what does it mean to you to be an

30

: 00:01:26

interrupted dad to me, it's just kind

of being able to adapt to the daily

31

: 00:01:31

chaos, like, you know, They always

say, you know, your first plan never

32

: 00:01:36

survives first contact with the enemy.

33

: 00:01:38

Like that's the military phrase, but

no parenting strategy ever survives

34

: 00:01:42

first contact with your children.

35

: 00:01:45

Whatever, whatever strategy you

walk into a situation with it never

36

: 00:01:50

goes exactly how you plan, but the

better we get at taking all of our

37

: 00:01:57

experiences and learning from them.

38

: 00:01:59

We can kind of pull those

plays off the shelf.

39

: 00:02:02

One is we get to know our

kids better as they grow.

40

: 00:02:05

And then also, you know, just no matter

the situation, I can use something

41

: 00:02:09

and adapt what I've learned so far

to apply to the current situation.

42

: 00:02:13

So just being able to kind

of roll with the punches.

43

: 00:02:16

In the daily chaos that is parenting.

44

: 00:02:19

That's what I would, that's

what I would call it.

45

: 00:02:22

I love it.

46

: 00:02:23

I love that.

47

: 00:02:24

Speaking of like, so, you know,

there is no playbook, right?

48

: 00:02:28

We don't have that parenting

playbook that tells us exactly, you

49

: 00:02:31

know, step 1, step 2, what to do.

50

: 00:02:33

And like you described

a daily chaos almost.

51

: 00:02:36

And some days certainly

feel like that for us.

52

: 00:02:39

When we first talked, you, you

mentioned your relationship with your

53

: 00:02:43

father and your grandfather and that

there was some strain around that.

54

: 00:02:47

And I think there was, I

think you mentioned that they

55

: 00:02:49

struggle with their anger.

56

: 00:02:50

I'd love if, you know, if you're

open to it, I'd love to hear

57

: 00:02:52

a little bit more about that.

58

: 00:02:54

Yeah, absolutely.

59

: 00:02:55

You know, it's not something as a kid

that you really realize is going on.

60

: 00:03:00

And I think I was somewhere

in the realm of like 13 or 14.

61

: 00:03:04

That was a total hothead when I was a kid.

62

: 00:03:07

And my dad just kind of, so was my dad.

63

: 00:03:09

And he sat me down at one point and

said, Hey, you know, I know that you

64

: 00:03:13

and I have been very adversarial in

our relationship and I'm going to take

65

: 00:03:18

that on me, like your grandpa sat me

down and said, That I need to work

66

: 00:03:23

on my anger that just like he did.

67

: 00:03:25

And I'm going to fix that

earlier in our relationship.

68

: 00:03:28

So it doesn't cause any damage.

69

: 00:03:30

And so that was kind of a turning

point, obviously growing for both of us.

70

: 00:03:35

So not without slip ups along the way.

71

: 00:03:38

But I, I learned a lot from his

accountability that, that he took on

72

: 00:03:43

that to make the relationship better,

because I think it would have continued

73

: 00:03:47

you down a really bad, bad road.

74

: 00:03:50

And not to say that my dad and I weren't

very close, but, but it definitely

75

: 00:03:53

caused rifts in our relationship

when we would butt heads and both

76

: 00:03:56

went to anger as the first response.

77

: 00:04:00

So I, I ended up, oddly enough, my dad

didn't want me in martial arts when I

78

: 00:04:04

was a kid because he thought that because

I was more like anger driven You know,

79

: 00:04:10

I'm sure that that would be a problem,

and I just took it as a gym credit, like

80

: 00:04:14

unbeknownst to me in college, I needed

a gym credit, like, this looks like

81

: 00:04:17

fun, and it helped me, helped center

me a lot, and give me that structure,

82

: 00:04:23

and then obviously the military helped

as well, so that's been kind of, that

83

: 00:04:28

was the start of my journey, and then

therapy obviously is useful, just

84

: 00:04:33

identify, you know, if you can't, Talk

to yourself about why you're responding,

85

: 00:04:40

the way you're responding to things.

86

: 00:04:42

If you can't raffle that out to

a logical conclusion, then you

87

: 00:04:46

probably should go talk to somebody.

88

: 00:04:48

Not that there's anything wrong per

se, but you just need a guide to

89

: 00:04:52

help you put that down on paper.

90

: 00:04:56

And then, you know, we talked before

about how important journaling is

91

: 00:04:59

and whatever form that is for you.

92

: 00:05:01

You know, I think you said you do

it in the morning, I do it in the

93

: 00:05:04

evening as like a review of my day.

94

: 00:05:07

Okay.

95

: 00:05:08

And it's just super important to have

those notes to fall back on because we

96

: 00:05:12

all have so much going on in our brains.

97

: 00:05:14

It's hard to, to keep everything

straight without that help.

98

: 00:05:18

So that's kind of been my journey with it.

99

: 00:05:21

Again, not perfect.

100

: 00:05:22

I still get fired up sometimes, you know,

when, when my son is not being responsive.

101

: 00:05:28

My son's also autistic.

102

: 00:05:30

So there's a whole different

set of considerations and

103

: 00:05:34

how I have to approach him.

104

: 00:05:36

With certain things and I have

to, I can't talk to him even like

105

: 00:05:40

a regular nine year old, right?

106

: 00:05:43

Because Mostly, and he's super high

functioning, but in the way that he

107

: 00:05:47

interprets certain responses, we'll

put him into a fight or flight sooner.

108

: 00:05:53

So, and then he shuts down.

109

: 00:05:55

So I can't reach him at that point.

110

: 00:05:57

So it's very important.

111

: 00:05:58

And my wife and I both like give

each other feedback regularly.

112

: 00:06:02

Obviously Katie's way more experienced.

113

: 00:06:05

I stepped into, I jumped into the stepdad

role only a couple of years ago, and

114

: 00:06:08

she's been doing this for nine years.

115

: 00:06:09

So she's well more, way more

experienced with it than I am.

116

: 00:06:16

That answer is, is so perfect

because I actually, my next question

117

: 00:06:20

was about therapy and a question a

little bit later is about your son.

118

: 00:06:22

So, so you're hitting all the points.

119

: 00:06:25

I want to go back to your, your,

that moment with your father, cause

120

: 00:06:27

I think that's super powerful.

121

: 00:06:29

Not a lot of us have those

moments with our dads.

122

: 00:06:32

You know, I think a lot of men

that are listening to this, a lot

123

: 00:06:34

of people, even women listening to

this with their parents, with their

124

: 00:06:39

fathers, especially didn't have that.

125

: 00:06:43

Conversation that you were so, you know,

blessed to have with him that he's he

126

: 00:06:48

came to you and said, I want to do better.

127

: 00:06:51

Do you know what made him

reflect and and come to you?

128

: 00:06:55

Did he go to therapy?

129

: 00:06:56

Did he have and you said, is

your grandfather talked to him?

130

: 00:07:00

Do you know, like, what

really kind of drove that?

131

: 00:07:03

That I don't know exactly.

132

: 00:07:05

Yeah, I don't know exactly what it

was, but I, I do think it was some, a

133

: 00:07:09

combination of, you know, I was getting

bigger and stronger and we were, we were

134

: 00:07:16

definitely like grabbing each other,

like hands on collars type of thing.

135

: 00:07:20

Not that he would have ever

actually done anything per se,

136

: 00:07:24

but it was definitely escalating.

137

: 00:07:26

And then I think my grandfather saw

that at one point and pulled him

138

: 00:07:31

aside and was like, you must fix this.

139

: 00:07:34

Because he, I'm sure, had A flashback

to similar situations with my

140

: 00:07:42

dad and my grandfather and how

that tarnished their relationship

141

: 00:07:46

for an extended period of time.

142

: 00:07:47

And obviously he didn't want

to see that happen for us.

143

: 00:07:52

Yeah, I mean, I think for those listening,

you know, that are struggling with, with

144

: 00:07:57

some of the models they may have had when

they were kids, you know, and I struggle

145

: 00:08:01

with my, my, the relationship with my

father, my father was an alcoholic.

146

: 00:08:05

And, you know, great, great man,

former military but he, I think

147

: 00:08:11

he really struggled with how

to communicate, you know, well.

148

: 00:08:16

With, you know, my mom with, with his

kids and he loved us and he, he provided

149

: 00:08:21

for us, but I think there was like a

wall built where he just couldn't have

150

: 00:08:25

those types of conversations with us

and he was struggling internally with a

151

: 00:08:28

lot of the things he was dealing with.

152

: 00:08:30

So I think a lot of our listeners

are, don't have that same experience

153

: 00:08:35

that you were lucky enough to have.

154

: 00:08:37

But for those that maybe haven't or never,

you know, if you're older and you never

155

: 00:08:43

had that, what would you say to, to,

to dads now who didn't have that model?

156

: 00:08:49

You know, because I think that probably

really affected the way you parent.

157

: 00:08:53

You know, now with Harvey and, and

I'm sure with your daughter what

158

: 00:08:58

would you say to the men that kind

of didn't have those, those models?

159

: 00:09:02

I would say that it's your

responsibility, quite frankly.

160

: 00:09:07

And it's, it is, we've talked about

it in our previous communications.

161

: 00:09:12

It is tough being a dad.

162

: 00:09:14

It's tough being a man in like

ever, let alone in today's society.

163

: 00:09:20

So instead of.

164

: 00:09:26

Instead of looking at it from

like a more victim type mentality

165

: 00:09:30

like this is really hard.

166

: 00:09:31

Why is everybody against me like just

look at it from this is an opportunity

167

: 00:09:36

to lead the family and set the example.

168

: 00:09:39

Right.

169

: 00:09:40

So think about what you would want your

kids to do if they were in that situation.

170

: 00:09:48

And then do whatever the right thing

is so and you're going to feel better

171

: 00:09:53

about it like I think what people don't

realize is when you do the work to learn

172

: 00:10:00

about yourself why you're reacting and

what kind of master your own emotions.

173

: 00:10:05

And again, like I say

master your own emotions.

174

: 00:10:08

I'm not perfect, right?

175

: 00:10:09

Like even I guess what I've gotten better

at is when I do make a mistake, I can

176

: 00:10:15

recognize it faster and kind of step back,

you know, and it's not always right away.

177

: 00:10:22

Sometimes it's five minutes later.

178

: 00:10:24

Sometimes it's when I'm journaling

at the end of the day, right?

179

: 00:10:26

And I'm reviewing my day.

180

: 00:10:27

I'm like, you know, I really

did not handle that well.

181

: 00:10:30

And One of the things my

wife said was like, she said

182

: 00:10:33

that I'm a good communicator.

183

: 00:10:35

I think I put that in one of

the questions that you sent me.

184

: 00:10:38

And I, I sat here and like looked at her,

like, she's got to be out of her mind.

185

: 00:10:43

But she, she clarified what she meant

was like, Hey, Your biggest asset

186

: 00:10:48

in communication is saying, like

recognizing and taking accountability

187

: 00:10:54

for when you do make mistakes

so that we can make it right.

188

: 00:10:57

So that the pitfall is letting

that boulder continue to roll

189

: 00:11:01

downhill, down the wrong hill, you

know, we got to, we got to stop

190

: 00:11:05

the snowball effect, if you will.

191

: 00:11:07

So, and again, whatever,

whatever that means for you, I

192

: 00:11:12

think therapy is a great tool.

193

: 00:11:14

But it's not the only tool.

194

: 00:11:16

Community is really important.

195

: 00:11:18

I know you're doing great work

trying to bring people together

196

: 00:11:21

online, which is difficult, right?

197

: 00:11:23

Like, getting people to open up and

share when they don't even really know

198

: 00:11:27

anybody else is extremely difficult.

199

: 00:11:29

So, find some, something to put

in your tool bag and some sort of

200

: 00:11:34

support system so that you can walk

the path that you'd be proud to walk.

201

: 00:11:40

Absolutely.

202

: 00:11:41

Yeah, I think, you know, with the people

that, you know, the men and women that I

203

: 00:11:44

work with, I think one of the things that

we, we would always talk about is like,

204

: 00:11:50

you know, that reflection is so important.

205

: 00:11:54

It's such a busy world we live in.

206

: 00:11:55

Go, go, go.

207

: 00:11:56

There's demands on you from

your kids, from your work.

208

: 00:11:59

And you put demands on yourself,

some of which maybe aren't.

209

: 00:12:02

Aren't the right ones to put that's

a topic for another conversation,

210

: 00:12:06

but that pressure that you feel to.

211

: 00:12:09

I think you even mentioned it in 1

of your answers is to always be on.

212

: 00:12:12

I think we all have that where we feel

like we have to be always on and that can.

213

: 00:12:20

really easily turn into feeling

like you have to always be perfect.

214

: 00:12:27

And if you have that mentality where

you can't make a mistake and own

215

: 00:12:31

it, then you will play that victim.

216

: 00:12:34

You'll have that victim mentality

where you won't be able to really

217

: 00:12:38

improve your communication because

you're not willing to accept yourself,

218

: 00:12:43

which is, you know, we all are.

219

: 00:12:45

We all are, are working,

works in progress.

220

: 00:12:47

We all are.

221

: 00:12:47

Nobody's perfect.

222

: 00:12:49

Nobody's this master guru, you know, and

you see a lot of that online where people

223

: 00:12:54

are showing, you know, perfect lives,

perfect marriages, perfect relationships.

224

: 00:12:58

Everybody fights.

225

: 00:13:00

Everybody has communication

mishaps and mistakes.

226

: 00:13:04

And like you mentioned, the power

is in the correction, right?

227

: 00:13:08

The, Hey, I didn't handle that well.

228

: 00:13:12

I want to try again.

229

: 00:13:13

Or I didn't handle that well.

230

: 00:13:16

Next time, this is what I would

have, would, would say, right?

231

: 00:13:20

And, and that's, that's

really all you can do.

232

: 00:13:23

And I think I'm, I'm a

work in progress also.

233

: 00:13:26

I'm not perfect.

234

: 00:13:27

I have the same exact.

235

: 00:13:29

You know, issues, and I think

communication is really, and I think,

236

: 00:13:35

you know, you put it in your bio

it's, it's, it's the, the, the one

237

: 00:13:39

that the, the thread that kind of you

saw throughout your whole leadership

238

: 00:13:43

journey was, if you don't have

effective communication, then, you know,

239

: 00:13:47

it's never going to leave the page.

240

: 00:13:49

I think you wrote, you wrote that.

241

: 00:13:51

Yeah.

242

: 00:13:51

Yep.

243

: 00:13:52

And that's, that's honestly the

kind of a journey I've started

244

: 00:13:54

down as I think the military.

245

: 00:13:58

You know, I've been in

the military for 15 years.

246

: 00:14:01

My wife is still in the guard.

247

: 00:14:03

So we talk about this a lot, like

good examples of leadership, bad

248

: 00:14:07

examples of leadership, and this kind

of aha moment that I arrived at is

249

: 00:14:13

the military kind of does a bad job.

250

: 00:14:15

And I would say the world in general

does a bad job at selling us what

251

: 00:14:20

leadership is because they sell the

final product, but they don't talk about.

252

: 00:14:26

The real things that generate that,

like the perception of leadership

253

: 00:14:31

is just a by product of quality

communication, because if you don't have

254

: 00:14:36

that foundation, like what, if you're

talking about at work, right, if you

255

: 00:14:40

can't communicate to your team, what,

what your expectations are, what the,

256

: 00:14:46

whatever objectives are you're trying to

make, they can't then go execute your.

257

: 00:14:52

Whatever that was supposed to be.

258

: 00:14:54

And then you run into the bad leadership

example of you end up micromanaging.

259

: 00:14:59

And it's the same, same, same,

but different at home, right?

260

: 00:15:02

Like I don't talk to my wife or

my son, the way I talk to my teams

261

: 00:15:05

at work, mostly because just the.

262

: 00:15:08

The language is different, but you have

to take the time to be as clear, concise

263

: 00:15:15

and correct as you can with the words

that you're using, which usually means

264

: 00:15:20

slowing your speech down, especially

when you're talking to your kids.

265

: 00:15:24

And we, We have pretty in depth

conversations with our son for a nine

266

: 00:15:29

year old especially, but honestly,

like he's a better communicator than

267

: 00:15:34

most other kids I've seen, I think

because we just like kids that read a

268

: 00:15:38

lot, tend to have a better vocabulary,

the more we talk with him, the more

269

: 00:15:43

interactive he is in the conversation

and the more he seems to understand, so.

270

: 00:15:48

Just making sure you're taking

that time to do that so that

271

: 00:15:51

everything else can happen.

272

: 00:15:52

Because if you don't take that

first step with the foundation,

273

: 00:15:56

the house is just going to crumble.

274

: 00:15:59

Yeah, and I think one of the themes that

I see a lot is people are in conversations

275

: 00:16:04

are often not truly listening.

276

: 00:16:08

Right?

277

: 00:16:09

It's like, you just want

to say the next thing.

278

: 00:16:13

And that's, I mean, I've been, I'm saying

that because I've done it, so it's,

279

: 00:16:19

it's a, it's a matter of really, you

know, practicing truly being present.

280

: 00:16:25

I think these days, the challenge

is being present because in order to

281

: 00:16:28

really listen effectively, you really

have to be in, you know, eye contact.

282

: 00:16:33

You're, you know, you're paying

attention, you're watching body language,

283

: 00:16:36

all of those things, and often we're

distracted by not only our children

284

: 00:16:41

maybe coming in the room, but also our

devices that are right in our pockets

285

: 00:16:45

that we, a lot of us struggle with, you

know, putting down, or just, you know,

286

: 00:16:49

the TV's on, or a noise is happening

outside, whatever the case may be.

287

: 00:16:54

If you really want to be a better

communicator, I think, One of

288

: 00:16:59

the first things you can do is

focus on being a better listener.

289

: 00:17:03

That's a hundred percent correct.

290

: 00:17:05

And that's something that.

291

: 00:17:07

I spend a lot of time with

myself trying to work on because.

292

: 00:17:12

That's a, that's a skill I had to relearn

coming out of the military and, you

293

: 00:17:18

know, getting into my marriage because,

you know, and especially in the flying

294

: 00:17:23

world, we all have the same lingo,

what I would call a common operating

295

: 00:17:27

picture and like flight standards.

296

: 00:17:30

So we, we know how we do 80 percent of

what we do without even talking about it.

297

: 00:17:37

And then we just talk about the,

what 20 percent is different today.

298

: 00:17:41

So you can't always, you can't really

do that in your personal life because

299

: 00:17:46

every day is totally different.

300

: 00:17:49

You know, you think it's like, in

a way the structure is the same.

301

: 00:17:51

We get up, we put the kids on the bus

to school, and then we go to work.

302

: 00:17:54

But in the relationship side of things,

you know, when emotions get involved, it

303

: 00:18:01

becomes way more difficult to communicate.

304

: 00:18:04

And so the act of listening

is incredibly important.

305

: 00:18:09

I'm, I've already, I'm totally

guilty of this at work.

306

: 00:18:12

I've already had the whole conversation,

especially if we're talking about

307

: 00:18:15

flying stuff cause I've been doing it

for 15 years, but it's a bad habit to

308

: 00:18:19

get in because at home I have to really

table that, you know, inclination

309

: 00:18:26

because nine times out of 10, the

conversation's not going to end up

310

: 00:18:30

taking the road that I thought it was.

311

: 00:18:32

So on the active listening side,

just like asking more questions, like

312

: 00:18:38

go on, what did you mean by that?

313

: 00:18:41

And if you honestly have no idea what

your partner is trying to tell you,

314

: 00:18:46

kind of encourage them to pause and

be like, wait, I don't understand what

315

: 00:18:50

you're trying to tell me right now.

316

: 00:18:51

Can you back up?

317

: 00:18:53

And that.

318

: 00:18:54

Like, I think in a way,

maybe for guys, because we're

319

: 00:19:00

leaned on to like, solve the problem

and keep moving forward, and we don't

320

: 00:19:05

want to acknowledge that maybe we,

we think by asking that question,

321

: 00:19:11

we're indicating we weren't listening.

322

: 00:19:13

And the reality is sometimes like,

your partner can be just as guilty as.

323

: 00:19:19

Of not maybe choosing the best words to

explain their what's going on for them.

324

: 00:19:23

So it shows, I think, respect for their

time and respect for the relationship

325

: 00:19:28

to say, Hey, can you back up?

326

: 00:19:31

Cause I did not catch that.

327

: 00:19:33

Like I'm not picking up

what you're putting down.

328

: 00:19:36

So it's a two way street, right?

329

: 00:19:37

Like active listening

is very important, but.

330

: 00:19:40

Words matter on both

sides of the conversation.

331

: 00:19:42

And that's the only reason I'm a

halfway decent communicator in my

332

: 00:19:46

relationship is because my wife

works just as hard at it as I do.

333

: 00:19:51

So it's gotta be both ways.

334

: 00:19:55

Takes two to tango.

335

: 00:19:56

Yeah, that's for sure.

336

: 00:19:58

I think you brought up a great point

though, you know, owning whatever it is.

337

: 00:20:03

Right.

338

: 00:20:03

So the accountability piece.

339

: 00:20:04

So if.

340

: 00:20:05

There are going to be times where you

didn't listen, maybe you were staring at

341

: 00:20:08

your phone for a second too long, right?

342

: 00:20:10

Just saying that I think

is powerful as well.

343

: 00:20:12

It's like, rather than, you

know, kind of brushing it aside.

344

: 00:20:17

I've done this in the past where

I'm just like, you know, trying to

345

: 00:20:21

guess what my wife did say because I

wasn't listening, but I didn't want

346

: 00:20:24

to admit that I wasn't listening.

347

: 00:20:25

Right?

348

: 00:20:25

And it's like, it's not the best strategy.

349

: 00:20:27

Just put your phone down

and say, you know what?

350

: 00:20:29

Hey babe, I was looking at my phone.

351

: 00:20:31

I'm sorry.

352

: 00:20:32

I shouldn't have been doing that.

353

: 00:20:33

I know you were talking.

354

: 00:20:35

Can we just start over?

355

: 00:20:36

Because I really do want to

hear what you have to say.

356

: 00:20:37

And it's that simple.

357

: 00:20:39

It's not simple to do, but

it is very simple to say.

358

: 00:20:42

And if you get into those new

habits, those new patterns, because

359

: 00:20:46

we all have these old patterns

that we, we want to get rid of.

360

: 00:20:50

So if you can really be intentional

about the active listening and

361

: 00:20:54

trying to, Really, it takes, I

always say communication is a

362

: 00:20:58

practice, and in order to get better

at something, you gotta practice.

363

: 00:21:03

So, do you do it in your conversations?

364

: 00:21:06

People say, like, how do I practice?

365

: 00:21:07

Well, practice every day, no

matter who you're talking to.

366

: 00:21:10

If you're talking, like,

right now, we're talking.

367

: 00:21:14

If you go to the barbershop, talking

to your, the guy who cuts your hair.

368

: 00:21:16

I mean, there's ways you can practice

without your wife being involved,

369

: 00:21:20

your partner being involved.

370

: 00:21:22

But you can practice with

your partner as well.

371

: 00:21:24

And I think it's just important.

372

: 00:21:25

The accountability piece, I think, is huge

because it's like I'm showing my partner.

373

: 00:21:30

Like you said, I honor the relationship.

374

: 00:21:31

I care about how this

goes by saying out loud.

375

: 00:21:36

I, I messed up.

376

: 00:21:38

So I'd like to try again.

377

: 00:21:40

I, I didn't hear you because I was.

378

: 00:21:43

Doing something I shouldn't have been

doing while you were talking, but I

379

: 00:21:47

want to now, and I'm sorry for that.

380

: 00:21:50

So having those, those real life

examples and, and knowing like, by

381

: 00:21:54

the way, like all the listeners out

there that are, that have partners,

382

: 00:21:57

like we all struggle with this.

383

: 00:21:58

Every dad, every, every husband struggles

with this and women too, you know, on

384

: 00:22:04

both sides, like you said, it's both ways.

385

: 00:22:06

There's no, you know, it's not like

I'm saying dads need to do all the work

386

: 00:22:09

and, and, you know, And moms don't.

387

: 00:22:12

Everyone has to work to get

better at communicating, but

388

: 00:22:16

you have to own your, your shit.

389

: 00:22:18

You have to own it.

390

: 00:22:19

So, yeah, absolutely.

391

: 00:22:21

I want to talk about therapy because I

know that's, you know, while I do believe

392

: 00:22:26

the younger generation is getting a

little bit better with the being open to

393

: 00:22:30

going to talk and you, you would call,

I love how you said it was a guide.

394

: 00:22:34

And I think like, When people hear

the word therapy, it's like, Oh,

395

: 00:22:37

I, I don't need to go to therapy.

396

: 00:22:39

I don't need, you know, if we think about

it like a guide or a map, I think like

397

: 00:22:46

that is maybe a little more inviting to

some of the men who might be resistant

398

: 00:22:49

to going out and getting therapy.

399

: 00:22:51

So but I, I do want to talk

specifically about something we had

400

: 00:22:55

talked about previously, which was

you had, you run teams and you had

401

: 00:22:59

mentioned to me that you actually

encouraged the men and women that.

402

: 00:23:05

Work underneath you to go to therapy

almost as a preemptive pre, you know,

403

: 00:23:12

like a, like a preemptive way to like

solve problems that maybe haven't

404

: 00:23:16

even happened in their life yet.

405

: 00:23:18

Can you kind of explain

a little more about that?

406

: 00:23:21

Yeah, it's a big problem to the point

in the aviation community that like

407

: 00:23:26

the, there are advocates talking

at the congressional level with

408

: 00:23:31

the FAA on FAA is mishandling of.

409

: 00:23:36

Yeah.

410

: 00:23:36

Mental health and the pilot community.

411

: 00:23:38

So there's, there's problems in a

lot of different communities, but the

412

: 00:23:44

pilot community is like the very top of

the list because, you know, You know,

413

: 00:23:48

they always say pilots hate doctors.

414

: 00:23:49

Well, the reason is because if I go

to a doctor, they can tell me I can't

415

: 00:23:53

fly anymore, and it's the same thing

for mental health, but if you're

416

: 00:23:57

doing it as a maintenance piece,

as opposed to a, Hey, I'm not okay.

417

: 00:24:03

And you are grounding yourself

because there was a recent case where

418

: 00:24:07

a pilot like went to a therapist

said, I, I'm going to self ground.

419

: 00:24:12

I'm not going to fly for a while.

420

: 00:24:14

I need to get some help and they,

he's now fighting to keep his

421

: 00:24:18

certifications at all to fly.

422

: 00:24:20

So that's one reason, but the

other reason is it's just a tool.

423

: 00:24:25

So why not, why not just

make your life easier?

424

: 00:24:29

Who wants to go through

life internally in conflict?

425

: 00:24:34

Right, and not understanding why

you're reacting to things the way

426

: 00:24:38

you are, and why certain situations

are playing out the way they are.

427

: 00:24:45

Like, it's just a, it's a

stressor that nobody needs.

428

: 00:24:48

So why not just go and get better at it?

429

: 00:24:51

And I would say to loop in our previous

conversation, as you're going through

430

: 00:24:55

therapy, your spouse is I think, The exact

person that you should be practicing your

431

: 00:25:01

communication with, especially as you're

learning these new skills through therapy

432

: 00:25:06

or whatever means you could be listening

to podcasts, webinars, reading books.

433

: 00:25:13

You know, there's all kinds of different

resources out there, but you should

434

: 00:25:18

work with your partner to get to a place

where you can have that transparent

435

: 00:25:22

feedback because You're together, like,

yes, legally, you can get divorced,

436

: 00:25:30

but like, that's not the idea, right?

437

: 00:25:31

The idea is we grow together

and we face challenges together.

438

: 00:25:34

So, who better to give you,

like, unfettered feedback on your

439

: 00:25:39

communication than your spouse?

440

: 00:25:41

So, you know, that's, that's

something that, That Katie and I do.

441

: 00:25:47

And we have kind of have like a

little thing like, Hey, I didn't, I

442

: 00:25:50

didn't like the packaging on that one.

443

: 00:25:52

Like if we say something with a, like

kind of not great tone or a little bit

444

: 00:25:57

cuddly, then that's kind of our like,

Hey, check yourself, you're getting a

445

: 00:26:02

little bit and it could be unintentional.

446

: 00:26:03

It could be not, sometimes

it's just a word choice thing.

447

: 00:26:06

But it, it's kind of our safe, like,

Hey, step back, what just happened,

448

: 00:26:09

quick review, and then press forward.

449

: 00:26:11

So having a way to, cause you get

this academic knowledge from therapy.

450

: 00:26:16

Now, how do I go apply

that in my daily life?

451

: 00:26:20

Like you need a dance partner to

interact with if I'm working on my

452

: 00:26:25

interpersonal communication skills.

453

: 00:26:27

And honestly, that person

should be your spouse.

454

: 00:26:30

Cause they're then going to

see you grow and get better.

455

: 00:26:33

And they're going to just love you

more for being a better version of

456

: 00:26:36

yourself so that then you can support

the family in a more healthy way.

457

: 00:26:41

So, 100%.

458

: 00:26:44

I think what a lot of men that,

that I've talked to struggle with,

459

: 00:26:47

what I've struggled with in the

past is when you get that feedback,

460

: 00:26:50

you immediately build a wall.

461

: 00:26:52

You know, you, you have that default

defensive stance where it's like

462

: 00:26:56

you want to be, the, the pull to, to

defend yourself is stronger than the

463

: 00:27:03

pull to accept the, the data that

you're being given about yourself,

464

: 00:27:09

how you are being perceived, and then

using that data to then improve your

465

: 00:27:14

communication, improve who you are,

improve how you show up for your partner.

466

: 00:27:18

So I think if there's men listening that.

467

: 00:27:20

Are hearing Wade speak and giving this

guideline, which is perfect advice

468

: 00:27:26

and are like, well, you know, having a

hard time maybe responding in that way.

469

: 00:27:31

It's something to really, I think again,

journal about it or go to therapy.

470

: 00:27:35

If you really are, you know, not

sure how to handle or get a coach.

471

: 00:27:39

I work with men and coach

men on this exact thing.

472

: 00:27:43

It's like, how can we shift the

way we've been doing things?

473

: 00:27:47

Yes.

474

: 00:27:48

To a new way, we have to reimagine,

you know, if you ever want to make a

475

: 00:27:52

change in your life, whatever the change

is, it could be a small change or a

476

: 00:27:54

big change, you have to start first

with your belief system and like, you

477

: 00:27:59

know, do I want to show up this way?

478

: 00:28:03

If the answer is no, well, what

do I need to do to change that?

479

: 00:28:06

And if you realize that those walls

that you're building, You know, we

480

: 00:28:10

perceive them as safety, but the truth

is that you're just building a block

481

: 00:28:16

in between you and your partner, and

that's not sustainable, and those

482

: 00:28:20

little resentments will build over time.

483

: 00:28:22

So instead of stacking wins along the

way where you can actually have that

484

: 00:28:25

accountability and own, you know, your

mistakes and not take it personally.

485

: 00:28:31

So I think that was my struggle.

486

: 00:28:33

I used to take it very personally

when Sarah, my wife would say anything

487

: 00:28:38

that was even a little bit like out

of line or not out of line for her,

488

: 00:28:43

like to tell me I was out of line.

489

: 00:28:46

I would, I would then internalize

that and like almost shame myself.

490

: 00:28:50

But because I felt so much guilt and

shame through that, I would defend it.

491

: 00:28:57

to make myself feel better.

492

: 00:28:58

But later, like later on, I

didn't feel better and our

493

: 00:29:01

relationship suffered for it.

494

: 00:29:03

So I think for the men that

are listening, it isn't easy.

495

: 00:29:07

You know, we're talking casually

saying this is what you need to do.

496

: 00:29:09

Yeah.

497

: 00:29:10

It sounds simple, but it

takes, it takes legit work.

498

: 00:29:14

It takes journaling.

499

: 00:29:15

It takes reflection.

500

: 00:29:16

It takes reading books.

501

: 00:29:17

It takes listening to podcasts,

takes coaching, takes therapy,

502

: 00:29:19

whatever those tools you need.

503

: 00:29:21

It may take all of them, may take some

of them, but you have to be willing to

504

: 00:29:25

commit to it in order to make that happen.

505

: 00:29:27

So I don't want people listening to

think that this is just three guys

506

: 00:29:31

talking about how easy relationships

are and how easy it is to communicate.

507

: 00:29:35

That's not the case.

508

: 00:29:36

This is years of.

509

: 00:29:38

Really reflection and and we're still

on, you know, it's a work in progress.

510

: 00:29:42

I believe it always will be.

511

: 00:29:45

So if you're not in it for the long

haul, then you may not want to really

512

: 00:29:49

be in a relationship at all because

that's what relationships take.

513

: 00:29:52

You have to be willing to

work on the relationship.

514

: 00:29:54

It's a practice.

515

: 00:29:55

Just like your

communication is a practice.

516

: 00:29:57

I want to lighten the mood a

little bit and I tag on to that

517

: 00:30:02

real quick before I move on.

518

: 00:30:03

Yeah.

519

: 00:30:04

So Yes, this is like a, the dad

interrupted podcast, but kind of a common

520

: 00:30:09

thread that, that emerges as I talk about

this stuff is it has to be both people.

521

: 00:30:14

So if you, if you're, and I say

this because this was me, I was also

522

: 00:30:18

defensive when my wife would give me

feedback initially in a relationship.

523

: 00:30:22

So pulled my therapy

tools out of my tool belt.

524

: 00:30:26

And I was like, why am

I reacting this way?

525

: 00:30:29

She would point it out like,

Hey, your react, you're really

526

: 00:30:32

getting defensive about this.

527

: 00:30:34

And so one, it was from

previous relationships where

528

: 00:30:37

there was poor communication.

529

: 00:30:38

So I was conditioned for some of that.

530

: 00:30:41

So kind of recognize that.

531

: 00:30:43

And then the second part

is work with your partner.

532

: 00:30:46

Like.

533

: 00:30:47

Part of the mantra in our house is like

we grow together and face challenges

534

: 00:30:50

together You know, I believe in

yourself, but do the work to back it up.

535

: 00:30:54

So Leading like in our relationship.

536

: 00:30:59

I bring Katie along for those.

537

: 00:31:01

It's like hey, I'm working on this I need

you to like give me some grace and and

538

: 00:31:07

we do that for each other both ways But

you have to Talk to your partner about

539

: 00:31:11

this stuff because you have to create

that safe space to grow together and

540

: 00:31:16

like put all your cards on the table.

541

: 00:31:18

Because if you're holding back,

because if you're not giving feedback

542

: 00:31:21

to your partner on how they make you

feel, then that's going to diminish

543

: 00:31:26

your ability to move forward.

544

: 00:31:28

So it truly is a team effort

on the communication piece to.

545

: 00:31:32

Everybody's got to be vulnerable a bit.

546

: 00:31:35

Everybody's got to sit

down, even playing field.

547

: 00:31:40

Nobody's better than the other and, and

create that safe space where you can learn

548

: 00:31:45

and grow together, because if you don't.

549

: 00:31:48

It will continue to come back to,

Hey, maybe your spouse and honest,

550

: 00:31:54

honestly, sometimes, sometimes the

person that feels defensive may not be

551

: 00:31:59

the person that needs to do the work.

552

: 00:32:01

It may be the way you're being

spoken to by your partner, but the

553

: 00:32:06

communication piece for you then is

saying, you are making me feel this way.

554

: 00:32:11

When you speak to me like that.

555

: 00:32:13

And I don't feel like this

is a safe space that I can.

556

: 00:32:16

I can talk to you about this kind

of stuff when I want to, so we can

557

: 00:32:20

get better as in our relationship.

558

: 00:32:23

Absolutely.

559

: 00:32:24

Something men are really good at

is talking about emotions, right?

560

: 00:32:27

Yep.

561

: 00:32:29

But, but it's true.

562

: 00:32:30

I mean, we do need to get better at it.

563

: 00:32:31

We all do.

564

: 00:32:32

But being open with that feedback,

providing the feedback to your partner,

565

: 00:32:37

you know, I think that is, that is a

great point you make, because I think

566

: 00:32:40

a lot of men will internalize it.

567

: 00:32:42

And rather than saying how

their, their partner's making

568

: 00:32:45

them feel, they'll take it in.

569

: 00:32:46

Yep.

570

: 00:32:47

And they won't share that.

571

: 00:32:49

So how do you, how does your partner

get better at communicating with

572

: 00:32:51

you if they don't get the feedback?

573

: 00:32:53

So that's a great point.

574

: 00:32:54

So we do have a third,

a third dad on this.

575

: 00:32:58

This episode has been rather curious.

576

: 00:33:00

I'm curious, Eric, you know, you

must have a question or 2 for Wade.

577

: 00:33:05

Yeah, I was curious about what

is 360 degree communication.

578

: 00:33:11

So it's kind of what

we've been talking about.

579

: 00:33:13

Like, no matter what, yeah, Type

of team that you're working with.

580

: 00:33:17

It could be your family unit team,

could be your team at work that you

581

: 00:33:21

are clearly giving them like your

expectations of what you need from them.

582

: 00:33:26

And then you're open to like active

listening and taking feedback from

583

: 00:33:32

whoever is you're interacting with.

584

: 00:33:34

So for me, that goes for.

585

: 00:33:37

The people I'm flying with, but

also all our support folks, right?

586

: 00:33:40

There's like hundreds of people

that are involved with me just

587

: 00:33:44

taking off every day that I fly.

588

: 00:33:46

So being able to clearly communicate to

not just another pilot who speaks how

589

: 00:33:53

I speak and speaks the same language,

but being able to talk to, you know,

590

: 00:33:58

the person that works on our Life

support equipment or our maintainers,

591

: 00:34:02

like stepping back and being able to

communicate with all the people that

592

: 00:34:06

work around you to make whatever your

mission is, go, that could be something

593

: 00:34:11

at work or something in the home.

594

: 00:34:13

So in the home, I would say that applies

more to kind of what we were talking

595

: 00:34:18

about, 360 degree communication, like

creating that safe space between you

596

: 00:34:22

and your partner so that you can.

597

: 00:34:25

Be transparent both with your needs like

referencing something we spoke to earlier

598

: 00:34:30

like with distractions something we do

in our house is like If my wife or I

599

: 00:34:35

are on our phone And we seem distracted.

600

: 00:34:38

We're like, hey, I need your

attention and it might be like,

601

: 00:34:41

hey, can I finish what i'm doing?

602

: 00:34:43

Or, and then the response could be like,

no, I need your help right now, please.

603

: 00:34:47

And then the agreement is phones down.

604

: 00:34:51

And then we, we go with whatever

the person's really asking for.

605

: 00:34:55

And obviously you have

to be honest with those.

606

: 00:34:57

We can't get into a boy

who cried wolf situation.

607

: 00:35:00

And then with my son.

608

: 00:35:02

You know, within the realm of reason,

giving him the ability to influence

609

: 00:35:08

how the family moves through life.

610

: 00:35:11

Right.

611

: 00:35:11

So, you know, it could be as simple

as letting him pick where we go to

612

: 00:35:15

dinner, or it could be like, he has

a list of chores he wants to do.

613

: 00:35:20

Right.

614

: 00:35:20

So I give that list to him and I say,

okay, here's your window to get these

615

: 00:35:25

things done, and then he can come

back to me and say, Hey, I'd like, I

616

: 00:35:29

want to go play with my friends today.

617

: 00:35:30

Okay.

618

: 00:35:31

And I say, okay, but or I should

say, yes, you can do that.

619

: 00:35:35

And you still have to do your chores.

620

: 00:35:36

So instead of but we try to say yes.

621

: 00:35:40

And because it just kind of keeps

the conversation moving forward

622

: 00:35:43

rather than a negative kind of stop.

623

: 00:35:48

So basically just at, at a very

simple level, active listening and.

624

: 00:35:54

Delivery of information, but those are

just some examples of how we kind of

625

: 00:35:58

try to apply that at work and at home.

626

: 00:36:00

So one of the stories that we never got

into the last time we talked was you

627

: 00:36:04

had mentioned the way that you and your

wife almost joined a cult by accident.

628

: 00:36:10

So I was hoping that you could,

you could give us, this is, this is

629

: 00:36:16

not really related to the, the, the

conversation we've been having, but

630

: 00:36:19

I'm really, I want to lighten the mood

just a little bit for the listeners.

631

: 00:36:23

Yeah.

632

: 00:36:23

I love telling an embarrassing story.

633

: 00:36:27

So we had just moved back to the area.

634

: 00:36:29

We're engaged.

635

: 00:36:30

We're looking to get married.

636

: 00:36:31

So for context, my wife and I met online.

637

: 00:36:34

She used to live here in Washington

and had taken a job in Florida.

638

: 00:36:38

I still lived in Washington.

639

: 00:36:40

We met online through a

friend of a friend and.

640

: 00:36:44

After a brief long distance,

we were like, we're, we don't

641

: 00:36:47

want to do a long distance.

642

: 00:36:48

We want to do, we want to make this work.

643

: 00:36:50

And we know we need to be in the same

piece of same piece of real estate,

644

: 00:36:54

if you will, to make that happen.

645

: 00:36:56

So I drag her back from lovely Florida,

back to cold, dreary Washington.

646

: 00:37:02

And.

647

: 00:37:03

She's like, Oh, well, if we're

going to get married, we probably

648

: 00:37:06

need someone to marry us.

649

: 00:37:08

And we wanted to get back into church.

650

: 00:37:10

So she's like, I will take us to

the church that I used to go to.

651

: 00:37:15

So we get there late, of course,

and we're kind of scurrying about

652

: 00:37:19

trying to she's like, we're not

going to be able to find parking.

653

: 00:37:21

This is going to be a disaster.

654

: 00:37:23

And like, we're going to

walk in like super late.

655

: 00:37:27

And there's like a

mostly open parking lot.

656

: 00:37:29

She's like, that's very odd.

657

: 00:37:31

Great.

658

: 00:37:32

So we park, we go in all the

amenities that you could want in

659

: 00:37:36

a modern church, coffee bar, you

know, like everything spruce up,

660

: 00:37:41

everything looks modern and new.

661

: 00:37:43

We go, we drop Harvey at

Sunday school, very secure.

662

: 00:37:46

We're feeling great until we get into.

663

: 00:37:50

The, the service, the intro, what I

thought that the first person that

664

: 00:37:55

spoke was the pastor for the church.

665

: 00:37:58

And he was not, he was a junior pastor.

666

: 00:38:02

And then all of a sudden he just

kind of pivots and says like live

667

: 00:38:06

out to our four remote audiences,

here's your like master pastor.

668

: 00:38:11

And I can't remember the guy's name.

669

: 00:38:13

I, I kicked that memory out of my brain.

670

: 00:38:16

What the guy's name was.

671

: 00:38:17

But I will never forget what

he looked like he shows up.

672

: 00:38:22

I thought it was just like

a blank back of the stage.

673

: 00:38:25

The whole thing was a jumbotron.

674

: 00:38:28

And it was like we went from very chill,

suburbia church mentality to mega church.

675

: 00:38:37

Every stereotype you've ever

heard of in a second and a half.

676

: 00:38:42

And this guy's wearing a backwards

ball cap, a varsity jacket, like

677

: 00:38:48

a high school varsity jacket,

and jorts with, like, Nike Airs.

678

: 00:38:54

And he goes on this diatribe about

the war on Christianity and this

679

: 00:39:00

and that and the other thing.

680

: 00:39:02

And people were cheering like this guy

is talking about an uprising on a Sunday

681

: 00:39:08

morning in church and people are like fist

pumping and we're like, we need to go.

682

: 00:39:15

But Katie's first reaction was, I swear it

wasn't like this when I came here before.

683

: 00:39:19

I swear.

684

: 00:39:21

And so of course I like, you

know, I got on for a while.

685

: 00:39:24

Sure it was, babe.

686

: 00:39:25

Sure.

687

: 00:39:26

And then we're like, we

should, we should go.

688

: 00:39:28

Cause our first thought is like, what is

going on in Sunday school with Harvey?

689

: 00:39:33

If this is what's happening in the main

church, what's going on Sunday school.

690

: 00:39:37

So I look at her, I was like,

are they going to let us leave?

691

: 00:39:41

It was a concern.

692

: 00:39:44

So we got to look around.

693

: 00:39:47

We just make a quick, quiet exit and

end up getting Harvey like uneventfully,

694

: 00:39:51

but that was the oddest experience

and it was definitely a cult feeling.

695

: 00:39:58

We made a, an expeditious egress

as one might say, but it was

696

: 00:40:03

a jarring experience for sure.

697

: 00:40:07

How long had you and Katie

known each other at that point?

698

: 00:40:09

How long were you dating at that point?

699

: 00:40:11

Not long enough.

700

: 00:40:12

That's a thought that comes to my mind.

701

: 00:40:16

Was there any moment at that point,

like when you were inside the church,

702

: 00:40:22

where you were like, maybe Katie

likes this, maybe she's into this?

703

: 00:40:25

No, no.

704

: 00:40:27

The story, the short version of our, we've

only been together, you know, like two,

705

: 00:40:32

two and a half years now, like total.

706

: 00:40:35

So we were, we got engaged

very quickly, all because.

707

: 00:40:40

Honestly, we were, we both had done

the work, like I'd gone to therapy.

708

: 00:40:44

She had done her version of therapy,

which is like a very like internal

709

: 00:40:48

internally intensive journey for her.

710

: 00:40:50

And so literally the first weekend I

flew to Florida to see her, I met Harvey.

711

: 00:40:56

We didn't go out and party or

anything like that because.

712

: 00:40:59

We had talked on, on, you know,

FaceTime, whatnot, but we knew that we

713

: 00:41:06

didn't want to waste each other's time.

714

: 00:41:07

So we didn't party.

715

: 00:41:08

We, we got an Airbnb and literally

played house for the weekend and we

716

: 00:41:12

just put all our cards out on the table.

717

: 00:41:14

So I don't know that there

was too many secrets.

718

: 00:41:20

I could count on one hand, the things

that I've learned like significant

719

: 00:41:24

things I've learned about Katie

after that first weekend, we just

720

: 00:41:27

talked like the whole weekend.

721

: 00:41:28

So I was pretty confident also as

like, she's a security professional.

722

: 00:41:33

So that wasn't wasn't something that

was a concern for me at the time, but

723

: 00:41:37

it is a funny story we like to tell.

724

: 00:41:40

Yeah, that's great.

725

: 00:41:41

I want to talk a little more about Harvey.

726

: 00:41:43

You know, you had mentioned earlier that

Harvey's autistic, high functioning, but

727

: 00:41:47

that you have to communicate differently.

728

: 00:41:49

Besides, so I know you said

Katie's obviously she's been

729

: 00:41:52

Harvey's mom since day one.

730

: 00:41:55

So she's got more experience than you.

731

: 00:41:56

Besides Katie, have you, have

you done anything else to kind of

732

: 00:42:01

help you navigate that journey to

being the dad, the dad of Harvey?

733

: 00:42:07

Yeah, so I've listened to a lot of

different I found a handful of experts

734

: 00:42:12

online that speak very intelligently

about how to interact with them.

735

: 00:42:17

And what helped me out a lot was honestly

just learning about autism and how

736

: 00:42:23

that changes the way his brain fires.

737

: 00:42:25

So one of the most like jarring

moments for me I learned after.

738

: 00:42:31

A couple of incidences, I would take

him to get a haircut and I couldn't

739

: 00:42:34

figure out why he was like frantic

when he would get the hair clippings

740

: 00:42:39

on the back of his neck and I couldn't

figure out what, what was going on.

741

: 00:42:44

I was like, is this a kid thing?

742

: 00:42:45

That was my struggle initially,

where it is like the normal, I

743

: 00:42:49

say normal with a grain of salt.

744

: 00:42:51

Right.

745

: 00:42:51

But when is the when does the nine

year old and, and the autism begin?

746

: 00:42:56

And, and how do I identify?

747

: 00:42:59

Where that gray area is.

748

: 00:43:02

So I say, I give that story to tell

you what I learned about it, which is.

749

: 00:43:08

And an autistic brain, you know, most of

us have this nice little dividing line

750

: 00:43:12

down the middle between the two lobes,

autistic people with variation, don't,

751

: 00:43:18

they're like kind of merged in a way.

752

: 00:43:20

So whatever sensory inputs an

autistic person feels is, You know,

753

: 00:43:25

potentially 10 X, whatever a normal,

whatever biologically nominal

754

: 00:43:30

brain would look like and receive.

755

: 00:43:33

So that's just one example

of everything's heightened.

756

: 00:43:36

The fight or flight is heightened.

757

: 00:43:38

The obstinance is a big thing, mostly

in the way of their brain tries to

758

: 00:43:46

retain control of their environment

because their brain's always in chaos.

759

: 00:43:51

So imagine like.

760

: 00:43:53

Always being 80 percent frustrated

towards like a meltdown as an adult, you

761

: 00:43:59

know, just you're having one of those

days where you're at 80 percent all day.

762

: 00:44:03

And that's how some autistic people

live like day to day and they

763

: 00:44:08

just have to suffer through that.

764

: 00:44:10

There's medications and stuff

we ended up getting Harvey on.

765

: 00:44:13

ADHD medication, which is his

comorbidity, very common for

766

: 00:44:17

boys comorbidity with autism.

767

: 00:44:19

And as much as I'm against just medication

by default, the difference is like night

768

: 00:44:25

and day, his quality of life went way up.

769

: 00:44:28

So we did a test run with it

and that was the way to go.

770

: 00:44:31

So just a rephrasing of things.

771

: 00:44:34

You know, words matter, as we say, so

phrasing something that he perceives he

772

: 00:44:41

has choice, even though I need him to

do a thing like now is very difficult.

773

: 00:44:48

But usually, and again, like not

successful, I'm probably successful.

774

: 00:44:54

Like we, we joke in the pilot world,

first pass success on a landing or on

775

: 00:44:58

the, like airdrop or something like that.

776

: 00:45:00

My first pass success with Harvey is

probably in the realm of like 50 to 60%.

777

: 00:45:05

But as soon as I see him start to shut

down, I can try to re recage myself.

778

: 00:45:12

The unfortunate thing with the, one

of the most difficult things about.

779

: 00:45:17

Parenting an autistic kid is once that

wall goes up, it's very difficult to

780

: 00:45:21

bring it back down until you break

contact as it were, and let them regain

781

: 00:45:28

control of their environment, and

then you have to kind of come back.

782

: 00:45:31

So, in a busy world with both

of us parents working full time,

783

: 00:45:39

that's very difficult because we're

kind of always in a time crunch.

784

: 00:45:42

So that's one example, you know, we

could, we could do a whole nother

785

: 00:45:46

podcast just on, on parenting

neurodivergent kids, but yeah, I

786

: 00:45:51

hope that helps explain a little bit.

787

: 00:45:53

No, I appreciate you sharing.

788

: 00:45:54

I know I'm sure there's, there's

listeners out there that are, you

789

: 00:45:57

know, have, have autistic kids as well.

790

: 00:45:59

So I think any, anytime we can share

information, share our experiences,

791

: 00:46:03

it's definitely impactful.

792

: 00:46:06

And the whole point of

this podcast is to help.

793

: 00:46:09

Moms and dads, but mainly dads, cause

you know, we're dads interrupted, but I'd

794

: 00:46:13

love for moms to be listening as well.

795

: 00:46:15

And share this with, with any dads, you

know, but the main point is, you know,

796

: 00:46:19

we want to have these conversations so

that, you know, number one, you don't feel

797

: 00:46:23

like you're alone in your experience as

a father, you don't feel like it's easy

798

: 00:46:28

for some men and it's hard for others.

799

: 00:46:30

That's not the case.

800

: 00:46:31

It's a challenge and it's a

struggle, but it's also rewarding.

801

: 00:46:36

If you're willing to put in that, that

time and that effort, that energy and that

802

: 00:46:40

focus that you can, you can get better.

803

: 00:46:42

I always say, in the relationship

work I do, I say relationships

804

: 00:46:45

don't get easier, you get better.

805

: 00:46:47

And it's the same thing for parenting,

you know, as a dad, you know, fathering

806

: 00:46:51

doesn't get easier, you get better.

807

: 00:46:54

And it is your responsibility

to get better for yourself,

808

: 00:46:58

but also for, for your kids.

809

: 00:46:59

So super helpful.

810

: 00:47:01

To talk about those, those experiences

I don't mean to put you on the spot

811

: 00:47:05

and you can certainly send this to me

after the fact, but do you remember

812

: 00:47:08

you said you listened to some really

smart people podcasts and or, or watch

813

: 00:47:12

maybe their Instagram who, who deal with

parenting and parenting autistic kids?

814

: 00:47:17

Do you happen to know like a

name or two that you really like?

815

: 00:47:20

I'll send you a couple.

816

: 00:47:21

So the one that, that I.

817

: 00:47:24

work with is just the ABA therapy,

like from like the, the national level.

818

: 00:47:29

But I'll send you that information.

819

: 00:47:31

I don't want to give you the wrong,

like IG handle or something like that.

820

: 00:47:34

Perfect.

821

: 00:47:35

Yeah.

822

: 00:47:35

So I'll put that in the liner

notes so that people can, you know,

823

: 00:47:37

check that out on their own and

see if it's a fit for them as well.

824

: 00:47:40

This is, this is going

to be the last question.

825

: 00:47:42

Cause I, you know, we got to wrap up here.

826

: 00:47:44

Or maybe there's two more.

827

: 00:47:45

First one is, I know, I know

you've got some things cooking

828

: 00:47:47

besides your, your new baby girl.

829

: 00:47:50

Tell, tell the listeners, you know,

where they can find you, what you're,

830

: 00:47:53

what you're working on, what you're

most excited about some of the

831

: 00:47:55

projects that you've got coming up.

832

: 00:47:57

Yeah.

833

: 00:47:58

So As we kind of like alluded to in my

communication journey generated from

834

: 00:48:04

my lightbulb moment that communication

is really the key, not leadership.

835

: 00:48:10

So in my quest to debunk that and

retrain a lot of my folks at work

836

: 00:48:17

and then also retrain myself.

837

: 00:48:19

I'm going to be entering

the coaching space.

838

: 00:48:21

So it's going to be team

tactics and performance will

839

: 00:48:24

be the name of the company.

840

: 00:48:26

So it's just me for now.

841

: 00:48:27

We're going to start, I'm going to start

taking on people to coach probably in like

842

: 00:48:32

the April timeframe, we'll be ready to go.

843

: 00:48:35

So right now the syllabus, like what

I, the normal things that people

844

: 00:48:40

struggle with is in my notebook, I got

to get it on some reputable courseware

845

: 00:48:45

before it's ready for primetime, but.

846

: 00:48:48

I definitely want to the mantra

like I kind of have adopted

847

: 00:48:51

is, you know, communication

drives your drives your life.

848

: 00:48:54

So grab the wheel, you know, you

got to grab the wheel and drive,

849

: 00:48:58

drive yourself if you feel like

you are life is driving you.

850

: 00:49:03

Communication is probably the first

place that you can spend some time

851

: 00:49:07

and regain some of that life control

over, over how your day to day goes.

852

: 00:49:12

And that's true, as true

at home as it is at work.

853

: 00:49:15

I think that's pretty evident

from our conversations here.

854

: 00:49:19

The, the words I choose and the tone

I use might be slightly different.

855

: 00:49:24

Obviously I have a more

loving tone at home.

856

: 00:49:26

But all of the way that we do things are.

857

: 00:49:31

The same, the way we

communicate is really the same.

858

: 00:49:33

So helping people through

that, that's going to help.

859

: 00:49:36

Like if you're, if you feel like you've

hit a wall at work and you can't get

860

: 00:49:39

promoted, that's one thing, you know, if

you feel like you're button heads with

861

: 00:49:43

your spouse and you can't make headway

with some of the issues you're having at

862

: 00:49:48

home, I'm going to be focused a little bit

more on the professional side of things.

863

: 00:49:54

But that, that all of those

techniques are going to pay dividends.

864

: 00:49:59

At home as well.

865

: 00:50:00

So that's gonna be my journey

over the next couple years, you

866

: 00:50:04

know, while I while I still do the

military full-time, so should be fun.

867

: 00:50:09

with a new baby girl on the way.

868

: 00:50:10

I'm sure I'm gonna have tons of free time.

869

: 00:50:11

So look, looking forward to onboarding,

you know, like three to five people

870

: 00:50:15

in April and then see what I can,

what I can handle workload wise.

871

: 00:50:19

But that's, that sounds like an amazing

opportunity for people that are listening.

872

: 00:50:24

You know, if, if you need help

with your communication practice,

873

: 00:50:27

I hope you've realized wait is.

874

: 00:50:29

He's definitely done the work

to get to where he is today

875

: 00:50:32

in his communication practice.

876

: 00:50:33

I know he's being modest about, you know,

maybe not being the best communicator in

877

: 00:50:37

his relationship with Katie, but Katie

gave him some pretty, pretty nice kudos

878

: 00:50:41

on your communication skills at home.

879

: 00:50:44

So definitely follow Wade.

880

: 00:50:46

I'll share Wade's information

in the liner notes as well.

881

: 00:50:49

The last question I have is actually this.

882

: 00:50:53

What would you say to the men out

there, the dads out there, that

883

: 00:50:56

are feeling interrupted themselves?

884

: 00:50:58

And when I say interrupted, that could be,

that could mean many things to many dads.

885

: 00:51:02

You know, for me, an

interruption could be alcoholism.

886

: 00:51:05

You know, I dealt with that with

my own father and with myself

887

: 00:51:09

as well when I was younger.

888

: 00:51:11

I wasn't a dad at that

point, but it could be that.

889

: 00:51:15

It could be just communication issues.

890

: 00:51:17

It could be, you know, You know, a

mental health thing where you have a

891

: 00:51:21

block about going to therapy, but if,

if you, if you heard a dad out there,

892

: 00:51:27

somehow, they said to you, or you heard

through the grapevine that they're

893

: 00:51:31

struggling with, with feeling lost,

helpless, confused, interrupted maybe

894

: 00:51:36

that they don't feel like they're enough.

895

: 00:51:38

What would you, what would

be like the, your, your main

896

: 00:51:42

point to drive home with them?

897

: 00:51:44

If you had the opportunity

to talk to them?

898

: 00:51:47

The first thing I would say is.

899

: 00:51:50

Figure out where you want to go.

900

: 00:51:51

What is, you know, begin

with the end in mind.

901

: 00:51:54

What do you want your life to be like

that you're not getting right now?

902

: 00:51:59

So you kind of alluded to a lot of those.

903

: 00:52:01

It could be a communication thing.

904

: 00:52:02

It could be.

905

: 00:52:03

I just feel frantic all the time.

906

: 00:52:06

And I feel like I'm

reactionary all the time.

907

: 00:52:08

Okay.

908

: 00:52:08

Well, I want to get to a point where.

909

: 00:52:10

I can have a reasonable expectation of

at least let's start with knowing what

910

: 00:52:17

my day is going to be like, you know,

it's never going to be perfect, but

911

: 00:52:21

right now I'm just fully reactionary.

912

: 00:52:24

And once you identify what that

is, I would reach out and start

913

: 00:52:30

building a community of friends.

914

: 00:52:32

That's one thing I think COVID did a

really nasty thing to all of us is kind

915

: 00:52:37

of like pushing us And separating us and,

you know, all companies are remote now.

916

: 00:52:42

And I'm not saying like, pour your

heart out to your coworkers necessarily,

917

: 00:52:46

unless you're also really good friends,

but building communities internally,

918

: 00:52:51

locally, like everybody should have

the couple people they can rely on.

919

: 00:52:57

And if you just happen to find yourself

isolated, I think it's probably

920

: 00:53:01

equally, or if not more important

to then find a therapist, find.

921

: 00:53:06

Go find a community like

yours that you're building.

922

: 00:53:09

Because what you can do then is help,

they can help you identify the specific

923

: 00:53:15

things that you can work on and

absorb like a community of skill sets.

924

: 00:53:20

Don't, don't try to do this yourself.

925

: 00:53:22

You know, like.

926

: 00:53:23

I have coaches for things that

I need to help with, right?

927

: 00:53:27

Like I don't, you can scour the

internet for your entire life, trying

928

: 00:53:31

to find information and it becomes

overwhelming in and of itself.

929

: 00:53:36

So as opposed to finding people that

you can bounce ideas off of and learn

930

: 00:53:41

together is a way more effective way

to do that, and once you identify.

931

: 00:53:46

The gates that you need to get

yourself through, like say,

932

: 00:53:50

you know, I'm not sleeping.

933

: 00:53:51

Okay.

934

: 00:53:52

Well, how do I get myself on a healthier

sleep pattern that might involve not

935

: 00:53:57

touching your phone before bed or

immediately upon waking, which I think

936

: 00:54:01

we can agree, probably most of us are

pretty bad at that could be one example.

937

: 00:54:05

It could be, you know, any number of

things, but then you find people either

938

: 00:54:11

through professional or personal means.

939

: 00:54:13

That can help you navigate how

to get through those stepping

940

: 00:54:17

stones to get to the desired end

state that you want for yourself.

941

: 00:54:23

And then you'll find a

whole host of other things.

942

: 00:54:25

Like once you level up and get to

what you thought was going to be

943

: 00:54:29

a sweet spot, you're like, well,

now I want to fix or not fix.

944

: 00:54:32

That's a poor word choice.

945

: 00:54:33

I want to get better at all these things.

946

: 00:54:35

Cool.

947

: 00:54:36

You've already.

948

: 00:54:37

Learned how your brain likes to

structure your journey to identify

949

: 00:54:43

the, the root cause problem.

950

: 00:54:45

Like if I fix this thing, the other

stuff's going to kind of follow.

951

: 00:54:49

And then I can fix all the little

intermediary things along the way.

952

: 00:54:53

Once you do that cycle, once you'll

just get better and better at it.

953

: 00:54:57

And you'll find yourself like

looking back five years ago, like.

954

: 00:55:01

Looking like a different person

and it's going to feel really good.

955

: 00:55:05

So that's a bit of a long answer, but

it is a journey, you know, whenever you

956

: 00:55:10

pick that next, whenever you move the

goalposts, as it were down the line,

957

: 00:55:14

you're like, I want to get to here.

958

: 00:55:16

It's a process every time.

959

: 00:55:18

So don't, it doesn't have

to be done overnight.

960

: 00:55:21

It is, you know, you can set goals for

yourself, but don't string yourself

961

: 00:55:26

out if you don't get there in time,

you know, like humans are complicated.

962

: 00:55:30

It's, it's real easy.

963

: 00:55:32

I think Simon Sinek said this,

it's like a cat doesn't have

964

: 00:55:34

to think about being a cat.

965

: 00:55:35

It just is a cat, but it's

very difficult to be a human.

966

: 00:55:39

And it's very difficult to be a man and

find your place in your relationship and

967

: 00:55:44

society and learn how to communicate.

968

: 00:55:46

Right.

969

: 00:55:47

So that's what I would offer for that.

970

: 00:55:49

Love that.

971

: 00:55:51

Community.

972

: 00:55:51

Community is huge.

973

: 00:55:52

I agree with that.

974

: 00:55:53

I think, you know, lack, lacking,

lacking those, those close friendships.

975

: 00:55:59

We often feel very lonely in our worlds.

976

: 00:56:04

If we're even, even in our marriages,

you know, if we don't have a

977

: 00:56:07

community of men that we can talk

to about these types of things, it

978

: 00:56:11

can often feel like we are alone.

979

: 00:56:13

And that's, again, one of the reasons why

this podcast exists is so that you have.

980

: 00:56:18

You know, if you're a part of this

community now, and certainly you can

981

: 00:56:22

find local communities and, and, and

brothers, other men that are nearby

982

: 00:56:27

that are, are wanting to have these

types of conversations and maybe are

983

: 00:56:31

a little bit afraid to but I know from

the work that I do, the people I talk

984

: 00:56:36

to that men are dying to have these

types of conversations, these types of

985

: 00:56:39

friendships, and they're so important.

986

: 00:56:42

So I love that answer.

987

: 00:56:44

And yes, progress is not linear.

988

: 00:56:46

Never, never.

989

: 00:56:48

It rarely is, so knowing you're going to

stumble, you're going to fall down, and

990

: 00:56:52

make mistakes, and being okay with that,

and then learning from those mistakes,

991

: 00:56:55

taking those mistakes, and grabbing the

lessons, and then using that information

992

: 00:57:00

to then take that next leap forward.

993

: 00:57:02

So, great answer, really good advice.

994

: 00:57:05

Wade, it was amazing.

995

: 00:57:07

Really talking to you today.

996

: 00:57:08

Really happy to have you on

such a great conversation.

997

: 00:57:11

I really hope all the listeners

find this conversation helpful.

998

: 00:57:14

If you have any questions, comments

love for you to, you know, give us a

999

: 00:57:17

rating, let us know how it was, let

us know what you love most about it

: 1000

00:57:21,450 --> 00:57:23,610

in the comments and till next time.

: 1001

00:57:23,620 --> 00:57:24,830

But wait, thank you for being here.

: 1002

00:57:24,840 --> 00:57:25,310

I appreciate it.

: 1003

00:57:26,000 --> 00:57:26,210

Yeah.

: 1004

00:57:26,210 --> 00:57:26,830

Thanks for having me.

: 1005

00:57:26,830 --> 00:57:27,470

This has been great.

: 1006

00:57:27,480 --> 00:57:28,230

Hopefully we can do it again soon.

: 1007

00:57:28,790 --> 00:57:29,140

All right.