G-6DEFP72BRX Why I Quit Being the Breadwinner (And My Marriage Got Better) with Brian Page - Dads Interrupted

Episode 16

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Published on:

26th Jun 2025

Why I Quit Being the Breadwinner (And My Marriage Got Better) with Brian Page

What if running your home like a business could bring more love, peace, and partnership into your marriage?

In this powerhouse conversation, certified Fair Play© facilitator and founder of Modern Husbands, Brian Page, shares the systems, mindset shifts, and real-life hacks that transformed his marriage from survival mode to thriving teamwork. We talk about ditching outdated gender roles, redefining what it means to provide, and how to stop micromanaging each other into burnout.

With humor, depth, and practical tools, Brian pulls back the curtain on what it actually takes to build a home life that supports your dreams — not drains them.

Topics include:

  • Why “helping” at home isn’t the same as taking ownership
  • The Fair Play© system and how it eliminates resentment
  • Ditching gendered tasks: how to think like a team, not a stereotype
  • A father’s money story — and how it shaped a new legacy
  • Real hacks for managing domestic labor (yes, there's a spreadsheet involved)

Takeaway:

You don’t have to choose between being a strong provider and an engaged partner. You can be both — especially when you install the right systems, stop chasing approval, and start building the life you and your partner actually want.

About Brian Page

Brian Page is the founder of Modern Husbands and a nationally recognized personal finance educator, Fair Play facilitator, and advocate for modern marriage systems. With over 15 years of experience teaching economics and personal finance — and a slew of honors including being named a CNN Money Hero and a Milken Foundation award recipient — Brian blends practical expertise with lived experience.

He’s Fair Play Certified®, holds a Master’s in Education, and has served as a consultant to institutions like the Wharton School, the Consumer Financial Protection Bureau, and Next Gen Personal Finance.

Married since 2002, Brian and his wife — an executive in the financial sector — have three kids and have traded roles as breadwinner and caregiver. His work helps couples rebalance the load at home, strengthen their partnership, and design a life built on teamwork, not tradition.

Grab resources and connect with Brian here: Modern Husbands

About the Host:

Hi, I'm Fred Van Riper—husband, father, former construction professional, and creator of the Connection Architecture Process. I help growth-oriented leaders become more clear, confident, and connected through transformational leadership development.

I work with leaders who are successful on paper but know there's another level available—leaders who want to architect genuine connection rather than hope for it. Whether you're leading teams, building businesses, or navigating the complexities of modern fatherhood, everything starts with how you lead yourself.

This podcast explores the intersection of leadership, connection, and authentic living. No corporate fluff. No outdated "authority" models. Just real conversations about the invisible forces that shape how we show up—and practical tools to transform them.

My approach combines unconventional methods with proven frameworks because breakthrough moments happen when we bypass the analytical mind and access our authentic leadership wisdom. Think leadership archaeology, emotional weather systems, and connection as a competitive advantage.

Ready to go deeper?

The Connection Blueprint is my flagship 3-week leadership development experience launching September 2025. This live "course" is designed for leaders who see connection skills as leadership development, not crisis management. Reserve your spot here.

Want immediate insight? Book a free Strategy Call to explore how the Connection Architecture Process applies to your specific leadership challenges.

Looking for resources you can dive into right now? Check out my complete toolkit.

Everything begins with how you lead yourself. Your success, how you handle failure, conflict, and challenging emotions—it all connects back to how connected you are to yourself and others. Let's architect that connection together.

Transcript
Fred:

Welcome back to the show.

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Today we're diving deep into what it means

to be a modern husband, father, and man.

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My guest Brian Page isn't just a

financial education powerhouse.

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He's also someone who's lived the

complexity of a building a life alongside

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a powerhouse partner, raising a family,

and navigating all of the unspoken

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stuff that comes with trying to quote

do it all in a dual career household.

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Brian, thanks for coming on the show.

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Brian: Fredrick, I'm really excited to

be here and I love the work that you're

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doing and the men you're supporting.

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It's valuable.

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It's making a difference

for a lot of people.

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And like I said, I'm happy to be

here 'cause I follow what you do.

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And again I'm thrilled to be able

to share, our message to the men

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out there and the couples out there

who needs support just to manage

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their money in their home as a team.

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Fred: Not trying to bury the lead

here, but go to modern husbands.com.

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That's where you can find Brian and

we'll bring that up again at the end.

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Brian, I always love to start with this.

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Was there a moment, personal or

professional that made you realize

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something had to shift in how we

show up as husbands and partners?

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Brian: My, my wife is really successful in

her career and we moved from Cincinnati,

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Ohio to Atlanta for her career.

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And I had spent.

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My own career doing what's

called the greedy work.

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Meaning the work that is necessary

to advance to go the extra mile

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that cuts into the amount of time

that folks spend at home managing

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everything that comes with a family.

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And I recently interviewed Dr.

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Claudia Golden who won the Nobel Prize in

economics in:

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And essentially what she found was

that all things equal, it's really the

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greedy work that causes it, meaning I.

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It is a societal norm after children

are born for men to feel the need

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to be the financial provider.

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And as a result, women fill

the void inside the home.

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And it's not necessarily

strategic in many cases.

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It's, and it wasn't in ours,

it was just like, what we did.

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And you, we looked at just the

short term math, which might have

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made sense back then, not now.

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And, as a result.

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Of that we just carried forward and

there was no systems discussion.

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There wasn't any sort of depth to the

conversation about what the home would

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look like and how it would operate.

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And it's obviously regrettable and,

when we were in a position in Atlanta

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where we just needed one of us to,

give, 'cause you can't, you, when

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you have three kids, you can't have.

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Two it's difficult, I should

say, to have two people who are

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both doing the quote greedy work.

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And I, I prefer to look at the system

where you have a gardener and a

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rose in the relationship, meaning I.

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The gardener nourishes

the home environment.

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The gardener usually

works full-time as well.

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And the rose is who is blossoming

in their career in part from the

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nourishment being provided at home.

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And so we just switched roles and

I'm the gardener at home and the.

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The need for one of us to be, the

default domestic safety net fell

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this time intentionally to me.

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And I love it.

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I build my work schedule now

around what the family needs.

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And it allows for my wife to

thrive and she deserves it.

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It's her turn.

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And I think because we both have

lived in each other's shoes,

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both in our career ambitions and

managing the home and caregiving.

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It made the transition easier for us.

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But that's not to say there

weren't any bumps in the road.

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'cause ultimately it

started with me not knowing.

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I didn't even, I didn't even know

how to do the laundry to be clear.

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I worked 70, 80 hours a

week, had a bleeding ulcer.

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I'm the old school guy from a royal

area, and like I just literally

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Googled, how do you be a great husband?

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That's where this started.

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Fred: One of the things that I come

up with and confront in my own life,

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and also with the clients that I

work with, is this idea that we

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have to be the financial provider.

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Was that hard for you as a man who

was raised with that certain idea as

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what providing meant for your family?

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Brian: And there's still times where

it's hard and there's a lot of literature

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out there that, shows why it's hard.

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And frankly, when you look at

the data, it's for good reasons.

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Both men and women alike believe that

for us a man to be a good partner,

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that they must be capable, that's

an important word, capable of being

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a provider, financial provider.

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Now, that doesn't necessarily mean.

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That they have to be the

breadwinner doesn't necessarily

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mean they must be the breadwinner.

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It just means they must be capable.

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So there is that inherent pressure.

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Whereas when the same question is asked

to men and women, and this is according

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to Pew only 35% of folks believe that

women should be capable of being a

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financial provider to be a good partner.

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And you've got the modern

world of work where.

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Fortunately, there's progress and

women are crushing it in their careers

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and the gender pay gap is closing.

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And it's, it's not closed all the way,

but there's been tremendous progress.

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But what has not been discussed

enough is what men were doing 50 years

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ago to crush it in their careers.

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Was in part on the backs of women

doing the unpaid labor at home.

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And you can't expect a system where

both partners work, and that's the

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majority of households and both partners

are ambitious without addressing

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the unpaid labor at home in a way

where it is equitable, but also it's.

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Practical, and if you, let's say

strip away gender norms, which if

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you look at it from the perspective

of just an economist just looking

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at person A and person B it's.

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Far easier to look at

this situation rationally.

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And if you look at partner A and

partner B and determine that partner

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B has the opportunity to earn more

financially if partner A does more

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of the domestic labor at home.

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And the goal is.

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Increase your household income,

then the solution is really simple.

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And that's like for us, that was

one of the reasons also, 'cause

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I was at a point where I probably

wasn't gonna earn more, but she

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had more because of her profession,

there was more runway, so to speak.

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And it just, it was rational.

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It was logical.

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But, feelings aren't.

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And Yeah, it's hard.

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It's hard and it really takes a guy

that just either wasn't raised in, in

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a world, maybe it's their own intimate

home or the people around them or.

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Money and masculinity were married.

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Maybe that's part of it.

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For me, I think like I had

accomplished what I really had

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wanted to accomplish in my career.

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So I felt, I think satisfied.

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So it made it easier.

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And quite frankly, I don't

know if I would've been man

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enough to do that if I hadn't.

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And I think it takes a real

man to be like, look, I don't

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need money to define my value.

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As a provider, particularly when

you ask women, like what's the

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number one thing you look for?

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Study after study says exact same thing,

or survey after survey, I should say.

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And that's social and emotional support.

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That's number one.

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In, in a circumstance where both couples,

have a higher earning capacity or

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collectively you can find a way to make

enough to live the life you wanna make.

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If you two, if both couples

can be supportive of that or

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in the same team it can work.

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I'm lucky my wife.

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Continues to reinforce her

appreciation for doing the things

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that she would always used to do.

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And I think that's part of it.

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And that's, I think one of the main

reasons that I am comfortable not

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being the breadwinner because my

wife goes out of her way to show me.

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Appreciation to tell me how

much I'm appreciated for it,

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and men need to hear that.

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I heard that from Dr.

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Joshua Coleman and I were talking

about this on our podcast and

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men just need that affirmation.

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I know there are, folks out there that

you know, particularly for women that

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have been doing the domestic labor at

home, they're like, why should I have to?

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Do something like that.

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You know what it I don't know how

else to explain it, but that's

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the world that we grew up in.

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That, and that's a need that a lot

of men have because of that world.

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And it doesn't mean that it's right.

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It doesn't mean that it's fair, just

like the gender pay gap isn't fair.

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It just means that if you love

your partner and your partner

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is struggling with it, you

really shouldn't look at it as.

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I shouldn't have to do that.

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That's not a loving response.

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A loving response is how can I make

sure my partner loves himself and do

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the things that I need to do because

he's doing the things that are

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allowing me to shine in my career.

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Fred: You bring up a couple good points.

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The appreciation first, we'll

start with that because that

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was the last thing you said.

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So appreciation works both ways.

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In a sustainable relationship,

it's crucial for both partners to

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be expressing their appreciation.

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And this isn't a, pat on the back for

doing the little thing every single

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day, every single week, all the time.

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But just once in a while, hearing

that, hey, I see what you're doing.

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I'm noticing that you are X, Y, Z and I

appreciate what you do for the family.

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And that works.

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Wonders for intimacy because what

I've come across and the men that I

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either help or ask me to help, and

maybe they don't sign on to some

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of my work they want more intimacy.

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Intimacy starts with

some of the other stuff.

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It's not just what happens in the bedroom.

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What happens in the other

rooms of your house dictates

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what happens in the bedroom.

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So if you're a partner who isn't tuned in,

who isn't noticing the things that have to

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get done, who isn't sharing the load, it's

hard to get to that intimate point where.

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Your partner wants to engage in

that, in, in that sort of way.

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So I would start with

some tough conversations.

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Some close conversations.

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Things that you actually appreciate about

each other and those sorts of things

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Brian: I gotta say, the

research supports that.

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I mean it, and it's funny that research

like that makes the media headlines,

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but you can, if you just Google sex and

chores, you're gonna find, a copy of the.

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The research and yeah, that's

absolutely the case here.

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I've got two quick things.

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One is that here's a husband hack for you.

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Fold the laundry on the

bed right before bedtime.

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That's a that's a great,

that's just love that.

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Yeah.

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And, but the other thing is my,

my wife works in office three days

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a week when she's not traveling.

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She works in the office three

days a week, but when she's home.

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Twice a week.

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And if I'm working in the kitchen or

living room or whatever she'll walk

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in and I actually, I don't wanna

say I'm a knee freak, but I have to

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have things clean to feel settled.

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And she'll walk in and just almost

every time she'd be like, oh,

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I love this beautiful kitchen.

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Little comments like that.

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And I think it's, I don't

know how much of it is forced.

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I know it's definitely

genuine, but it's also.

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Pure appreciation 'cause that's what

she had to do for such a long time.

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And like now that's being done

for her and this I'm unusual where

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I do almost everything at home.

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And what I advocate for is

teamwork, working as a team in

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a way that works best for you.

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But.

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For our circumstances,

it's made us far happier.

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She's far happier and, I'm sure we'll

get to the mental load, but frankly,

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when your partner has a big job, they

don't need to be weighed down by the

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mental load of also managing the home.

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That's two full-time careers.

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And I think that's like a big that's

been a big step for her is being

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alleviated to that, not that the

kitchen's clean, that she doesn't have

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to worry about anything like that.

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Fred: Exactly.

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And everyone wants to

know what's in it for me.

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What's in it for me is a

normal human question to have.

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And you said something there,

I do it, I did it for her.

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But you're actually, you're doing it for

her, but you're also doing it for you.

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Yeah.

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You're doing it for your kids.

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You're doing it for the, just

because it makes you feel good, but

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it makes you feel good because you

know you're making her feel good.

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It's like a, it's like a positive

feedback loop that you create.

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Just by simply noticing and doing more.

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, Brian: Dr.

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Coleman's brought that up that

that when men do things like that,

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usually the motivation is they

want to do it for their wives.

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And I know one of the things that

you hear is, no, you should do it

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'cause you're a responsible adult.

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But again, why crush motivation?

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Why stand in the way

of something like that?

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A husband is motivated by

making their wife happy.

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By doing the domestic labor.

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Let's not stop that.

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Let's celebrate

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Fred: that and I just want

to, stamp that with it.

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Don't make it transactional, right?

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Because if you're yeah.

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If you're doing something to get something

else and then that something maybe never

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comes to me, the pre appreciation doesn't

come as often, then now you start score

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keeping and that creates a bad dynamic.

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So yes, agree with you.

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Just make sure that motivation is true.

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Genuine.

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Yeah.

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Genuine.

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Like I don't expect

something in return now.

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No.

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You, going back to what you said about

the provider conversation that we

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were having and your, circumstances is

obviously unique to you and your wife,

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and there's other couples, I would say

the majority of couples are out there.

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. Both partners.

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Are working for their own reasons,

and maybe they both love their

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career paths and maybe, yep.

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Maybe that's a lot of couples, right?

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And maybe the, there's no

clear breadwinner, right?

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It's like there it's not, when we

talk about breadwinner, there's

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not, that's lot of couples too.

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There's not a big gap, right?

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Yep.

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So that's the other, , piece that I

just don't want to get lost in our

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conversation because your situation

you're able to work from home and that's

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really helpful to be able to do some

of the things you do to support now.

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What do you say to couples who

have that dynamic where both

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leave the house, norm Yep.

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Nine to five type jobs.

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How can they both support each other?

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', We're talking.

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Equitable household, division

of labor as best as you can.

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What are your, a few

of your tips for that.

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Brian: First I think that the goal

should be a a roughly equal leisure time.

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And I know you're not supposed to score

keep, but that's like a good rule of thumb

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to make it a little bit easier to figure

out like what's fair because there's gonna

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be resentment if one partner's doing more.

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What doing more could

means at work or at home.

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But if one partner's, on the golf

course all the time, the other

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partner finds themselves always

doing work, there'll be resentment.

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I think you should strive for

an equal amount of leisure time.

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The second thing to consider is and

this is not my, I'm stealing this from

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the author of how couples that work.

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I had Dr.

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Peg Green Lee on my podcast, and she,

this was super insightful and she's look,

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just break life into five year chunks.

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And if you break it into five-year

chunks, when you sit down with your

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partner, you have to make a decision.

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If you both are ambitious you still

are going to have with children.

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Without children, you

don't, this isn't necessary.

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But when you have kids, one of you is

still gonna have to be the domestic safety

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net, meaning somebody from the school.

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To call when they're sick.

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Like those types of things that

are disruptions in the workforce.

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And, her perspective is that every

five years look at who is gonna be, and

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this the gardener and the rose, right?

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Who's the gardener at home

nourishing the environment?

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And then who's the rose

blossoming in their career?

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That gardener could still, might

only be doing literally half of the

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domestic labor, including the mental

load, et cetera, but they're the most.

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They're the domestic safety net.

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And then after five years you reevaluate,

and perhaps it's the other partner's

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turn, like my wife and I have taken turns

to ensure that there's not resentment.

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So that, that would be important to

stick to is just looking at life in

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five-year chunks and having defined roles.

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And then the third.

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Is if you have the means outsource.

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I I don't know, like years

ago I got like a pay raise.

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I don't remember what it was, a

windfall, but essentially I, I.

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My knee jerk was, let's not

buy new furniture or a new

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car or any of that kind.

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Crap, that's easy for me.

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I'm not a possessing materialistic

guy, so it's easier for me to say that.

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But let's get a housekeeper.

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And oh my God, you should see

my wife's face, like light up.

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So we gotta a housekeeper once a week.

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Can you get somebody to do your

landscaping outside, mow your lawn?

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Think of the things that maybe

you don't enjoy to do, you're

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not necessarily good at.

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That are time sucks.

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Those are really good.

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Things to look at, to outsource, and,

people crack on, like eating out.

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Eating out is an outsource.

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That's what that is.

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I love to cook but I'm slammed right

now and I haven't cooked in a week.

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And I usually, when I say I

love to cook, I don't stick a

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frozen pizza in the oven, I cook.

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I'm just slammed.

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So we eat out.

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And frankly, the cost of groceries are so

high that it doesn't make the difference.

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The financial difference isn't meaningful.

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But what that means is I'm not

cleaning the kitchen three times a

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day now 'cause of all the dishes.

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I'm not spending an hour preparing.

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I'm not coming up with, grocery lists

and making a second run to the grocery

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if I forgot, those types of things.

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'cause those are time sucks.

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So if you have the means

to outsource, do it.

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And I'm not suggesting that outsourcing

is alleviating all responsibility.

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You still have to have somebody who.

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Owns the task of outsourcing, right?

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Like the person who's communicating

with whomever you're outsourcing to.

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:

But that communication and

that responsibility is like

349

:

significantly less than it would

be if you were doing it yourself.

350

:

I guess to bring this all home.

351

:

Number one, try to make sure there's a

round and equal amount of leisure time.

352

:

Number two, look at life in

five year gaps, milestones, and

353

:

have an idea of whose careers

being prioritized at that time.

354

:

And then after those five years revisit

and then the third outsource what you can.

355

:

. Fred: You recently became Fair Play

certified for folks who don't know

356

:

what that is what does it mean and

why does that matter in real life?

357

:

Brian: So it's a domestic labor

system and for me, it's something that

358

:

was super foreign, five years ago.

359

:

And it, it ties into my journey when I

Googled, how do you be a great husband

360

:

after reading a bunch of nonsense.

361

:

I stumbled upon the book

Equal Partners by Dr.

362

:

Man Manino, and it's a.

363

:

Just such a great book and

I can't recommend it enough.

364

:

And so I read that and that

stripped away gender norms, which

365

:

is important, but there you go.

366

:

Yeah.

367

:

Frederick's showing the book now.

368

:

And that stripped away gender norms,

which is important because then you

369

:

can look at things like an economist.

370

:

You can look at things

that's two chess pieces.

371

:

And then like, how can you.

372

:

Organize things based

on just, human capital.

373

:

And then the book after that I

read was Fair Play and I love Eve.

374

:

He's wonderful too.

375

:

And Eve created a system that makes

it far easier for folks to be able to

376

:

manage the home more like a business.

377

:

And what I mean by that is.

378

:

I think so all, all too often, many

of us like slip into the roles and

379

:

responsibilities that we have in the home.

380

:

That was the case in our marriage.

381

:

And without intentionality you're

going to have frustrations and

382

:

resentment and, a fair play method.

383

:

You can be boiled down to the.

384

:

The idea that when you de divide

the labor, the domestic labor,

385

:

you do it in a way where there's

a com, there's an understanding

386

:

and an accepting of your role.

387

:

And it's not any different than if you.

388

:

Worked at a company.

389

:

So let's say for example, I, you

have fair play cards that are used at

390

:

as conversation starters and tasks.

391

:

So let's say it's like the grocery

shopping, like that's one of the tasks.

392

:

I'm just gonna use that as an example.

393

:

There you go.

394

:

Yeah.

395

:

Frederick's shown it now.

396

:

So you have what's called CPE

Conception Planning Execution.

397

:

The conception is like the idea for

me, grocery shopping's okay, what am I

398

:

put I do grocery shopping and cooking.

399

:

I find it difficult.

400

:

To separate those two tasks.

401

:

It just leads to meaningless communication

and friction between my partner and I.

402

:

So we couple the two.

403

:

So what does that mean?

404

:

That means I have to think about what

needs to be purchased at the grocery

405

:

based on what I'm making this week.

406

:

And then what I'm making is based on like

when people are gonna be home, right?

407

:

When you have children and that

do after school activities.

408

:

A wife that works, sometimes they're

in town, sometimes they're outta town.

409

:

Like all of these things are different.

410

:

Responsibilities where you have to

be malleable and understanding of

411

:

what it is that you can actually

cook and when it can be ready, what

412

:

nights you have to eat out, et cetera.

413

:

So anyway, you go through

that process and I.

414

:

You are, that's the conception.

415

:

Like the idea is like

what are you cooking?

416

:

And then you have your list of things

that you go to purchase at the grocery.

417

:

And then as you are coming up with all

these ideas, you have to factor in how

418

:

long the groceries are gonna be good.

419

:

'cause if you're buying vegetables

right, you can't, or fish and

420

:

you don't wanna freeze the fish.

421

:

You can't put it in there

for seven days, right?

422

:

You gotta make those

things pretty quickly.

423

:

So that's the idea.

424

:

The conception, the

planning is actually like.

425

:

The planning of going to the grocery store

and I, this is a hack that I don't, I

426

:

think I just did it myself, but I write

my list in order of the grocery store.

427

:

So my vegetables are first, 'cause

that's the first thing that I hit

428

:

when I go into the grocery stores.

429

:

The breads are next.

430

:

'cause that's the next thing.

431

:

Then the meat.

432

:

And, 'cause I can, it makes it

easier to cross it off the list.

433

:

And that way I don't miss anything.

434

:

And I know that sounds a little

OCD, but trust me, it's not.

435

:

And by the way, for grocery store owners

who change things around, I hate you.

436

:

Don't ever do that again.

437

:

Nobody likes you.

438

:

Who does that?

439

:

Oh my gosh.

440

:

Yeah.

441

:

That's the worst.

442

:

Don't, there's no keeping it fresh.

443

:

It's stupid.

444

:

It's a frustration.

445

:

So anyway so that's the planning

and then the execution is actually

446

:

going to the grocery store.

447

:

That's like doing it and putting the

448

:

Fred: groceries away and, yeah.

449

:

Yeah.

450

:

All it's all of it.

451

:

Brian: Now in, so back to

the CPE, like I own that.

452

:

My, my wife doesn't tell

me, you need to go buy this.

453

:

You need to do that.

454

:

What time are you going?

455

:

You should go this.

456

:

So I own that.

457

:

That's my responsibility.

458

:

That's important.

459

:

'cause my wife doesn't,

men call it nagging.

460

:

My wife doesn't nag me.

461

:

I don't have to worry about that.

462

:

I shoulder that.

463

:

And I.

464

:

Something else that would always frustrate

me is when she would used to go to the

465

:

grocery, I'd be in the midst of work

and she would walk in and say what her

466

:

parents did is what she saw growing up.

467

:

She'd be like, Hey, can you

help bring the groceries in you?

468

:

You're not gonna say no, but it's like

I'm literally in the middle of work

469

:

and you're asking me to know you do it.

470

:

So I don't let anybody else

put the groceries away.

471

:

I do that right, because that's

all part of it, and the key is.

472

:

There's no nagging and there's

no she doesn't have this mental

473

:

load list in her mind where she is

making sure it's done and I don't

474

:

have someone chirping in my ear.

475

:

And then the final thing with Fair

Play to consider is the this minimum

476

:

standard of care, meaning, yeah.

477

:

What would a reasonable person say

about your grocery shopping habits?

478

:

Are you only buying.

479

:

Like frozen pizzas, right?

480

:

Or is there some sort of

element of nutrition in here?

481

:

And you've gotta have a, you have to

agree there, and I think that's where

482

:

there can be a lot of disputes because

people are going to have different

483

:

levels of minimum standards of care.

484

:

That is, and that's normal.

485

:

Fred: The key here is

communication, right?

486

:

Because in order to have a system

in place, you have to set it up

487

:

and in order to set it up, you

have to have some conversations.

488

:

Yeah.

489

:

And I think we gotta start there.

490

:

It's hey, , how's life working for us?

491

:

How's our relationship?

492

:

Are we feeling really good?

493

:

Is you know, what's going on?

494

:

And if.

495

:

You're feeling like you're not so

great, it's time to install a system

496

:

because, it's James Clear's famous quote.

497

:

We don't rise to the level of our goals.

498

:

We fall to the level of our systems.

499

:

That's a great point.

500

:

Yeah.

501

:

My wife and I are guilty of this,

for the first seven years of our

502

:

marriage, we didn't have a system.

503

:

We just we were winging it and

we were, surviving, not thriving.

504

:

Definitely frustrated.

505

:

Definitely a lot of resentment.

506

:

Building between both of us.

507

:

To your point, nagging was a thing for us.

508

:

I definitely wasn't doing my fair share.

509

:

I didn't know what fair

play was at the time.

510

:

I didn't know what mental load was.

511

:

Never heard the term.

512

:

Without a system, we were hurting, and

a lot of couples need to start realizing

513

:

that, hey, if you're committing to a

life with someone else and you're gonna

514

:

share a house and a life and raise kids

with that person and you want it to work.

515

:

Then why not get some supports?

516

:

Why not?

517

:

Why not install the system?

518

:

I think a lot of us are feeling

overwhelmed and burnout and you

519

:

look at the box a hundred cards

and you're like, forget it.

520

:

And we talk ourselves out of it.

521

:

You can start small and you can

start with three cards, five cards.

522

:

And when we say cards, it's just tasks.

523

:

Write down what are the five

biggest grievances right now?

524

:

Laundry, dishes, groceries,

dinners, whatever it is.

525

:

And how can we divide those in

a way that works for both of us?

526

:

At this season of our life,

527

:

Brian: if you could switch places with

Warren Buffett, would you, he's gonna

528

:

die soon, no what's more valuable?

529

:

$150 billion or time.

530

:

Time.

531

:

That's why systems must be in place.

532

:

Even if your marriage is going great, you

have to put systems in place because who

533

:

the hell may, maybe you do, but I'm not

like, oh, I can't wait to do the dishes.

534

:

No.

535

:

I want systems in place to get

that stuff done as efficiently as

536

:

I can to spend time with my wife.

537

:

Yeah, whether it's walking,

playing, pickleball, whatever it

538

:

may be, so we can free up time to

do things together that we enjoy.

539

:

We need systems in our home to create the

efficiencies, to create the time needed

540

:

because your, you and your wife are busy.

541

:

My wife and I are busy.

542

:

I'm sure many of your listeners are

busy, and you've got to really strive

543

:

to create those efficiencies so you

can make sure that you're prioritizing

544

:

time with yourself and your spouse.

545

:

Fred: I love the way you're talking

about this and this conversation

546

:

has been just brilliant because

you're talking very logically and I

547

:

think that's how your brain works.

548

:

You're just like let's look at the

facts and how can we approach this

549

:

as a problem to solve together.

550

:

I.

551

:

And what's the logical approach?

552

:

If one person is a significant,

breadwinner or has that opportunity more

553

:

so than the other, let's make a Yeah.

554

:

A informed decision.

555

:

And I think that goes to your background.

556

:

So talk about a little bit more about

your background in finance world.

557

:

'cause that's, that was your, it

still is your career, but tell us that

558

:

journey of like when you were younger

to now and how it all weaves together.

559

:

Brian: My upbringing.

560

:

Shaped who I am and how I see

money and the story it tells

561

:

about me, but I'm not atypical.

562

:

It, that's the case with all of us, like

most of our relationships with money

563

:

stem from our childhoods particularly.

564

:

When we're, eight through 12 and my, my

father who is, I would put him up in a

565

:

contest for the world's most frugal man.

566

:

It is extremely impressive.

567

:

But he grew up, he had financial

trauma and it was my youngest

568

:

that actually pointed that out.

569

:

And he grew up in a farm

and they were sharecroppers.

570

:

I don't know anything about

farming, but you don't own the farm.

571

:

You farm the farm, you do

all the work, but you get.

572

:

A fraction of the fruits

of the labor, so to speak.

573

:

And so he, they didn't grow up

with much, so to finish college,

574

:

he had to live in a railroad car.

575

:

And, worked on the railroad

and then went to school.

576

:

Computer engineer and fast forward to,

my upbringing and we were doing fine.

577

:

My dad was a computer engineer.

578

:

He had rental properties.

579

:

My, my mom was she was disabled.

580

:

She was a special education teacher,

but she had multiple sclerosis and

581

:

chronic pain from a tornado injury.

582

:

And, and so we made enough, to live on

outwardly what would be the middle Jones

583

:

or the Jones' lifestyle to have a really

nice car, a nice house, blah, blah, blah.

584

:

But we didn't have a nice car.

585

:

We had, when I say the shittiest

cars ever the first car I remember.

586

:

Us having was this station wagon

that was the size of a home.

587

:

It was the old woody station wagon,

like from National Lampoon summer

588

:

vacation, and someone followed us home.

589

:

I was in the car.

590

:

Someone followed us home from the

grocery store and wanted to buy it.

591

:

It wasn't for sale.

592

:

Didn't say it was for sale,

just somebody wanted to buy it.

593

:

They recruited it and they did it

because they knew they had a champion.

594

:

They knew they had a winner.

595

:

And I, they, my, my parents

sold it and I saw it.

596

:

Within the next month or two, win

the Clinton County demolition derby.

597

:

That's how big of a piece of shit it was.

598

:

It was recruited to win

the demolition derby.

599

:

That wasn't the worst car.

600

:

The worst car was a, this blue

shit like Ma Malibu station wagon

601

:

where it was so bad at one point

where the door handles rusted off.

602

:

And my dad, instead of getting a new

car, drilled holes where the door

603

:

handles were and ran metal fish wire

in there and created like a hook.

604

:

So to open the doors, it was like

open, starting a weed whacker, right?

605

:

So nothing worked like the the the gas

gauge didn't work, but the speedometer

606

:

didn't work, which sucks driving at night.

607

:

'cause you have no idea

how fast you're going.

608

:

So anyway.

609

:

I leave little rural, Ohio and go to

college and realize, hey, my parents

610

:

they could have driven nice cars.

611

:

What's going on here?

612

:

So I went back, between my my first

year of college and fresh or so, my

613

:

freshman and sophomore year in college.

614

:

I asked my dad like why would you do that?

615

:

And so my dad's like, all

right, get outta calculator.

616

:

All right.

617

:

So I get out this calculator.

618

:

And ask me what a car payment would be.

619

:

And I'm thinking, I don't

know, 350 bucks a month.

620

:

All right.

621

:

Now you need comprehensive insurance

'cause you're making car payments.

622

:

You don't own it.

623

:

The lender owns it.

624

:

What would that be?

625

:

I don't know.

626

:

A hundred bucks a month.

627

:

So type that in.

628

:

And type that times 12 months.

629

:

Now take that times 20 years.

630

:

And obviously it's this big number.

631

:

I'm like, all right, what's the point?

632

:

He says, the point is that no kid of

mine is gonna have to live in a railroad

633

:

car like I had to pay for my college.

634

:

And that's the only way I knew

that we could pay for yours.

635

:

And that was the first time in my

life where I realized that money was

636

:

a tool that you spend to unlock the

dreams of your life and to provide.

637

:

In a way for your family,

what is most important to you?

638

:

And it wasn't about earning, it was

about using, and it was about how

639

:

money speaks to us and models to us,

what is most important in our lives.

640

:

It was education.

641

:

I.

642

:

I became an educator.

643

:

I was a national teacher of the year.

644

:

I taught personal finance and economics.

645

:

It was a labor of love to be able to

help kids open their first IRAs and

646

:

file their first tax returns in class

get, use credit cards responsibly.

647

:

And, that led to, o other careers, but.

648

:

Ultimately, I'm a teacher at heart and

there's nothing that is a greater joy

649

:

than to see somebody recognize how, if

you use money in the way that matters

650

:

most to you and your partner or to your

family to see how much happier they are.

651

:

And so now I'm a accredited financial.

652

:

Counselor as well.

653

:

And I do help couples.

654

:

I'm not charging right now.

655

:

Just I'm doing it because I want to help

people manage their money as a team.

656

:

Fred: I love it on the same page.

657

:

Consulting.

658

:

It's your last name just

works perfectly for that.

659

:

Brian: Yeah.

660

:

You like that?

661

:

Yeah.

662

:

Yeah.

663

:

Fred: And modern husbands.com.

664

:

So before we wrap up, I wanna

do a lightning round here.

665

:

What is your favorite part?

666

:

I know your pickleball fanatic.

667

:

What is your favorite part

of pickleball that you think

668

:

actually relates to marriage?

669

:

Brian: Oh, the partnership,

the communication, right?

670

:

Like when you're playing pickleball,

if you have somebody that you just

671

:

naturally sync with, or in my case, it's

somebody that's hopefully better than me.

672

:

Even though I play all the time.

673

:

It.

674

:

It raises your level.

675

:

When you're playing with someone who's

really great, exceptional, and they're

676

:

a good communicator, you become better.

677

:

You become a better version of yourself.

678

:

And I feel like that done the right way.

679

:

That's marriage, right?

680

:

Where together you make each other better.

681

:

Fred: Love it.

682

:

I.

683

:

We could do a whole

podcast episode on that.

684

:

What is it?

685

:

What is one, I'm always

686

:

Brian: game for talking about pickleball.

687

:

Fred: What is one system you and your wife

use at home that's been a game changer

688

:

Brian: I it's not a

system, it's outsourcing.

689

:

Yeah.

690

:

Outsourcing is number

one, outsourcing as much

691

:

Fred: as possible.

692

:

Brian: Yeah, but obviously

the system is fair play.

693

:

That's made, that's been the game changer.

694

:

And it's not really the, like

the fairness aspect of it.

695

:

There's no gender stuff with it.

696

:

It's honestly just like it

eliminates micromanaging.

697

:

Nobody likes to be micromanaged.

698

:

I don't micromanage the tasks

that she's responsible for.

699

:

She doesn't micromanage mine and nobody

likes to be micromanaged on mundane

700

:

tasks like the dishes or the laundry,

and I can't stress enough how awesome.

701

:

That is just to own something

and not be nagged about it or for

702

:

someone else to own something and

for them not to be nagged about it.

703

:

It's a game

704

:

Fred: changer.

705

:

Dishes and laundry are the ones that come

up all the time for almost everybody.

706

:

' Especially if you have a lot of

kids, laundry is never ending.

707

:

You, we have two kids and

laundry is never ending for us.

708

:

And then dishes is an

everyday thing, right?

709

:

How do you, three times a day,

how do you guys just curious

710

:

how you guys do both of those.

711

:

I.

712

:

Brian: So she has a half of

her wardrobe's really nice.

713

:

So anything that's really nice, she

has her own separate basket in her

714

:

closet and she does that laundry.

715

:

Probably she doesn't want to

tell me this, but she doesn't

716

:

trust me and I don't blame her.

717

:

Like four, four years ago I was basically,

putting in like my work boots with a

718

:

suit top at the same washing machine.

719

:

I didn't know what I was doing.

720

:

She does that and then I

do all the other laundry.

721

:

So like her active gear, stuff like that.

722

:

I do my own laundry and then I

sometimes do our kids' laundry,

723

:

but they do their own schedule.

724

:

Your kids are a little older schedule?

725

:

Yeah.

726

:

Yeah.

727

:

My, so my oldest is in six AP classes

and he's getting his pilot's license.

728

:

So I can just sense when he's

overwhelmed and the laundry's

729

:

piling up and I just do it.

730

:

He never asked me.

731

:

But I think they just probably have

seen what my wife and I do, and

732

:

they just do it themselves now.

733

:

Our kids aren't now, but again,

if they're really busy, we do it.

734

:

Are I should say I do it for 'em.

735

:

As far as the dishes, I, anything

that's kitchen related, it's me.

736

:

I.

737

:

We just keep it simple,

whether it's cooking.

738

:

My wife will tell you this,

I'm not throwing her under the

739

:

bus, man, but she can't cook.

740

:

It's not her thing.

741

:

And I can, and I enjoy it.

742

:

My brother's the same way.

743

:

And his wife can't cook either.

744

:

But it's just a lot easier if all

things kitchen, in my opinion, all

745

:

things kitchen is one person, whether

it's groceries, food, keeping it clean.

746

:

And I had somebody on our

podcast that, said that what

747

:

they found, they don't have kids.

748

:

That's an important distinction.

749

:

But what they found is that essentially

if you throw the money tasks out

750

:

the window, that they found that

it takes about the same amount of

751

:

time to do all things kitchen as it

does everything else in the house.

752

:

Now they outsource, like landscaping and

stuff but I honestly feel the same way.

753

:

'Cause the kitchen is never ending.

754

:

Fred: Yeah, I think it's a really,

and again, we could do a whole

755

:

podcast episode on this too.

756

:

We as society, we need to stop

thinking about task as gendered.

757

:

And this is this isn't

yeah's so stupid, isn't it?

758

:

This isn't novel.

759

:

I'm not the first person to say this.

760

:

This is not my idea originally, but.

761

:

In my wisdom as an older married man,

I've been married almost 11 years now.

762

:

Congrats.

763

:

Yeah.

764

:

Yeah.

765

:

11 years in August.

766

:

But it's so dumb to think about laundry

as, women's work or dishes or anything.

767

:

Mowing the lawn as men's job, right?

768

:

It's not the ca it's not the case.

769

:

It's not real.

770

:

It's all made up.

771

:

And when we start to identify tasks.

772

:

As gendered, then that's where we

start to get some really strange

773

:

relationships inside our home with each

other, with intimacy and all of it.

774

:

So it's Hey, let's like strip

everything back , ask ourselves like

775

:

where did all these beliefs come from?

776

:

Let's start there.

777

:

, Why do I believe what I believe?

778

:

And is it real?

779

:

Is it what I wanna believe?

780

:

Is it helping my current life that

I wanna build with my partner?

781

:

If you wanna do, you do the laundry.

782

:

I do a lot of the laundry.

783

:

My wife similarly won't let me touch her

laundry, and I have asked me all of it.

784

:

Or is it just all of it?

785

:

All the night stuff?

786

:

All of it.

787

:

All of it.

788

:

And I've tried so many times to

convince her to let me do it.

789

:

And she is still resisting.

790

:

I gotta hack for you.

791

:

Brian: So when I started doing

the laundry, immediately hopes

792

:

okay, here's what you gotta do.

793

:

And I took it as, and I asked for it

because she's done it for 20 years.

794

:

If you're on the job, if you're working

at Microsoft or whatever and you're

795

:

taking over a new role, why wouldn't

you have the person who did the role

796

:

for 20 years tell you how they did it?

797

:

So I'm like, look, hold on a second here.

798

:

I'm just gonna get out

an Excel spreadsheet.

799

:

So I just have a spreadsheet that's

like with the instructions on how

800

:

to do all the different laundry.

801

:

That is how she wants it done.

802

:

I just have it taped above the washer.

803

:

That helps her.

804

:

So that's how she could at least

give up the non really nice clothes.

805

:

And so second follow up question to that.

806

:

Do you like football?

807

:

Fred: Love football?

808

:

I want to caveat the laundry thing.

809

:

I do.

810

:

She won't let me fold her laundry.

811

:

Let's say that.

812

:

Really?

813

:

She won't let me fold it.

814

:

I don't know why she won't.

815

:

Doesn't only they can be

folding it and put it away.

816

:

I'll have to, now that you brought

that up for again, it's like I'll

817

:

have to, maybe that's the right

approach is like, Hey, just show me.

818

:

How you want it done, write it down.

819

:

Makes sense.

820

:

And then

821

:

Brian: print it out.

822

:

But hold on.

823

:

Here's why I asked this question.

824

:

Lot of football.

825

:

Yes.

826

:

Here's a hack.

827

:

During football season, I would fold

the, do the laundry on on Sundays

828

:

when my kids didn't have stuff.

829

:

I would do the laundry on Sunday,

so then I would just rotate all of

830

:

the rounds and then fold the laundry

while I was watching football.

831

:

. Fred: I love that because

that's the thing, most people

832

:

don't like to do laundry.

833

:

So put on some music, put on a

show you like put on football.

834

:

Yeah.

835

:

Whatever.

836

:

It's put on your

837

:

Brian: podcast.

838

:

Fred: Yeah.

839

:

Put on this podcast.

840

:

Why not?

841

:

So last question for the lightning

round, which is hasn't been so fast, is

842

:

a belief about marriage or money that

you used to hold but you don't anymore.

843

:

And you just totally changed

your mind on you flipped it.

844

:

Brian: Yeah, that being a

provider only means making money.

845

:

Fred: So true.

846

:

I, you've probably seen

me talking about it.

847

:

When we think about providing as

men, it's super important, especially

848

:

if you're making shifts like these

in your home to realize that you

849

:

have so much value and worth in

the other things that you provide.

850

:

And to your point about money, it's a tool

that you can use to invest in the things

851

:

that are going to enrich your life or the

life lives of the people that you love.

852

:

And so why are we only allowing

our worth to be defined?

853

:

By one thing, when really we can bring

attention, love, hard conversations

854

:

being open, great communication.

855

:

There's so much that

you actually can, and.

856

:

Hopefully do provide.

857

:

And if you don't, you can start.

858

:

And so realizing your worth is

not what you provide financially.

859

:

Only nothing wrong with

making a lot of money.

860

:

Nothing wrong with focusing on

that as long as you also are

861

:

focused on all the other stuff.

862

:

If you could leave the men listening with

one piece of advice, one first step to

863

:

start building something better at home.

864

:

Other than visiting your

website, modern husbands.com,

865

:

which by the way has a ton of

resources that most of them free.

866

:

What would that piece of advice be?

867

:

Brian: Schedule a weekly meeting when

emotions are low, so cognition can

868

:

be high for you and your partner just

to talk through the business of the

869

:

home, whether it's managing money at.

870

:

Whether it's the domestic labor, but

it's far easier to work as a team

871

:

when you have time as a team to work

toward common goals, collaboration.

872

:

It's necessary.

873

:

Hey where can people learn more about you?

874

:

I'm gonna ask you that question.

875

:

Fred: So seatatthetablecoaching.com

876

:

is my website.

877

:

You can learn about me there.

878

:

And if you've liked this episode, if

you'd like this conversation, if this

879

:

helped you in any way, please, I.

880

:

Go to the podcast, drop a review,

it really helps this type of

881

:

conversation reach more men and

ultimately, Brian and myself are just

882

:

trying to help more couples and more

men feel empowered in their home.

883

:

Feel like they can show up as a

team member in their home without.

884

:

Diluting the masculinity piece of things.

885

:

Where I think a lot of men get stuck

is they're like that's not manly, or

886

:

That's not this, or That's not that.

887

:

And it's again, a story that you're

telling yourself, but it's really blocking

888

:

you from showing up in the ways that

your partner really need you to show up.

889

:

Your kids really need you to show up, and

ultimately, that's what I want for you.

890

:

I want the best for you and

your life, and the life that

891

:

you wanna build and to dream.

892

:

Again, a lot of us have.

893

:

For whatever reason, life's busy, it

beats us down, and certainly the news

894

:

around the world doesn't help, that cycle.

895

:

So stop beating yourself up, stop beating

your dreams away and actually realize

896

:

you can build exactly what you want.

897

:

You just have to be a, an active.

898

:

Participant in that dream.

899

:

Brian, this was such a rich conversation.

900

:

I want to thank you for sharing,

part of your story some of your

901

:

tools, your hacks, your time.

902

:

For all the listeners out

there go to modern husbands.com

903

:

if you are interested in Brian's

work on the same page consulting.

904

:

Is that the best place for

them to find that as well?

905

:

Brian: No, it's, no, it's just

everything's at modern husbands.com.

906

:

Fred: Modern husbands.com.

907

:

There we go.

908

:

As always share this with a

friend and thanks for listening.

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About the Podcast

Dads Interrupted
Real Talk on Fatherhood, Relationships, & Growth
What does it mean to be a good man—and a present dad—in a world that never taught you how?
Dads Interrupted is a podcast about fatherhood, masculinity, and the journey to becoming the man your family actually needs. Hosted by men’s coach and dad of 12+ years Fred Van Riper, Dads Interrupted dives deep into the conversations men aren’t having—but desperately need.

We explore what it means to lead with purpose, break free from outdated roles, and build the kind of relationships that change everything—at home, at work, and in your own head.

You’ll hear honest, real-world stories from men navigating fatherhood, marriage, emotional growth, and the myths that hold us back. As a Certified Fair Play Facilitator, Fred offers tools for shared responsibility, emotional leadership, and creating a home that works for everyone.

This isn’t about losing power—it’s about gaining something far greater: Respect. Intimacy. Legacy.

If you’re ready to break the cycle and build something better—this podcast is your starting point.

Support the show here so we can keep bringing you powerful conversations:
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Visit https://www.seatatthetablecoaching.com/ for more tools and coaching resources.
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About your host

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Frederick Van Riper

Hi, I'm Fred, a coach, father, and the creator of Seat at the Table Coaching.

I work with men who are doing a lot right on paper…

but still feel like they’re missing at home, stuck in their heads, or showing up as someone they don’t quite recognize.

This pod is where we strip it back.

No lectures. No performance. Just tools, stories, and real conversations to help you lead with more presence—without selling your soul in the process.