G-6DEFP72BRX The Moment That Redefined Fatherhood with Jeff Hittner - Dads Interrupted

Episode 19

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Published on:

6th Nov 2025

The Moment That Redefined Fatherhood with Jeff Hittner

When Jeff Hittner learned he couldn’t become a biological father, it shattered his definition of success — and ultimately transformed it.

In this episode of Dads Interrupted, Jeff shares how grief, therapy, and courage helped him redefine what fatherhood really means.

Together, we explore the tension between career and family, why asking for help is a leadership superpower, and how healing yourself is the first step to being the dad you want to be.

Topics:

  • Redefining fatherhood through grief
  • The balance between ambition and presence
  • Emotional courage and asking for help
  • The messy middle of modern fatherhood
  • Why healing yourself changes everything

Takeaway:

Jeff reminds us that ambition and fatherhood don’t have to compete... but only when we lead from alignment, not ego.

Learn more: Ambitious Dads

—

About the Host:

Hi, I'm Fred Van Riper—husband, father, former construction professional, and creator of the Connection Architecture Process. I help growth-oriented leaders become more clear, confident, and connected through transformational leadership development.

I work with leaders who are successful on paper but know there's another level available—leaders who want to architect genuine connection rather than hope for it. Whether you're leading teams, building businesses, or navigating the complexities of modern fatherhood, everything starts with how you lead yourself.

This podcast explores the intersection of leadership, connection, and authentic living. No corporate fluff. No outdated "authority" models. Just real conversations about the invisible forces that shape how we show up—and practical tools to transform them.

My approach combines unconventional methods with proven frameworks because breakthrough moments happen when we bypass the analytical mind and access our authentic leadership wisdom. Think leadership archaeology, emotional weather systems, and connection as a competitive advantage.

Ready to go deeper?

The Connection Blueprint is my flagship 3-week leadership development experience launching September 2025. This live "course" is designed for leaders who see connection skills as leadership development, not crisis management. Reserve your spot here.

Want immediate insight? Book a free Strategy Call to explore how the Connection Architecture Process applies to your specific leadership challenges.

Looking for resources you can dive into right now? Check out my complete toolkit.

Everything begins with how you lead yourself. Your success, how you handle failure, conflict, and challenging emotions—it all connects back to how connected you are to yourself and others. Let's architect that connection together.

----

Disclaimer: The content contained herein is for inspirational, educational, and entertainment purposes only. Nowhere in this podcast do we diagnose or treat a viewer/listener with any kind of psychological, mental, emotional or physical disorder as might be diagnosed and treated by a personal psychologist or other professional advisor. The content is not intended to be a substitute for working with a therapist but is for the purpose of educating the viewer about new approaches to working on personal problems. Viewers/listeners should use this podcast at their own risk, with the understanding that we are not liable for its impact or effect on its users. Viewing/listening to the podcast does not form a practitioner/client relationship between the viewer/listener.

Transcript
Frederick:

What happens when the life you imagine for yourself as a father

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doesn't go exactly the way you planned.

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For Jeff Hittner learning he couldn't

become a biological father, was

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devastating and ultimately transformative.

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Through grief therapy and deep

exploration, Jeff redefined what

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fatherhood could mean, and now proudly

parents, two amazing boys, the former

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founder of IBM's corporate social

Responsibility consulting practice.

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And leadership professor at

the Bard MBA In sustainability.

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Jeff now coaches high performing dads

through his company, ambitious Dads,

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helping them lead with presence, courage,

and a version of success worth passing on.

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In this conversation, we're going

to cover the emotional journey of

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reimagining fatherhood, how asking for

help can become a leadership superpower.

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The paradigm shift redefining

what dads expect of themselves

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and what society expects of us.

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And practical ways to balance, ambition,

income, impact, and presence at home.

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Whether you're a dad, a partner,

or someone leading others at work,

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this conversation will challenge you

on what you believe about success

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and hopefully inspire you to build

a life you are proud to pass on.

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Jeff, appreciate you coming on the show.

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Thanks for spending a few minutes with us.

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Jeff Hittner: Absolute

pleasure to be here.

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I love that intro.

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I'm excited to talk about these things.

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Frederick: So your story begins

with something that most dad never

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imagined facing, which is learning.

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You couldn't become a biological father.

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Can you, if you don't mind,

take us into that moment.

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What was that like for you?

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Jeff Hittner: Actually that the specific

moment is also rather interesting.

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So the specific moment I remember.

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doctor, we were obviously doing tests

because we weren't getting pregnant.

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And I remember the doctor calling us and

saying we, he needed to have us come in.

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And I was frustrated.

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I was like, can't you

just tell us on the phone?

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And he was like, no.

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So of course like, we

don't know what's up.

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And we go in there.

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And I remember him saying based

on the test results you won't

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be able to be a biological dad.

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And what was so fascinating

was in that exact moment.

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My wife just started crying and in that

exact moment I had 20 questions that I

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wanted to ask and it just made me go, wow.

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So interesting how differently we

process because she was processing

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it emotionally first and I was

processing it intellectually first.

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And and I say that story too because

it then meant like the journey for me

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to get to a place where I could grieve.

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And transform and reimagine what

fatherhood was one that had to get me from

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intellectualizing the situation to feeling

the situation, to grieving the situation

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and to eventually reimagining it.

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And we all start that journey

from a different place.

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Frederick: What did that season teach

you about grief and identity and this?

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Stories that we tell ourselves about

what it means to be a man and a dad.

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Jeff Hittner: A lot of things.

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It, it was existential first, right?

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Like when you're grieving, you're

asking yourself like, does God not love

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me enough to want me to create like

A-A-A-D-N-A mapped version of myself?

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What does it mean to be a dad?

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If I become a dad in a different

way, will I be messing up my kids?

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Because they'll have this whole

additional piece to their identity that

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they'll have to come to terms with.

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but in the end, what it did.

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Was it actually freed me of something

that I think is one of the most

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challenging aspects of parenthood,

fatherhood, or motherhood, which is this

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idea that that our kids are perfect.

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Because I realized in the moments that

I was grieving that like I was going

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to create imperfection as a result.

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My kids were going to have this.

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Crisis at some point.

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And I'm doing the my best as a thoughtful

dad, so that it's not a surprise.

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Like they all, they know

their biological story now.

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But it made me realize that okay, if I'm

already imperfect in my fatherhood and my

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child is already quote unquote imperfect

in in a sense, then I'm free to like.

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Grow and build and learn

and make more mistakes.

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And in some way it opened

me up to be a better father.

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'cause I wasn't holding on as tight,

but at the beginning it was extra

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hard because it meant letting go

of this idea of this perfect child.

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And of course in, in a sense all

of our children are still perfect,

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but imperfect in the way that.

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I was implanting a challenge

in their life that felt unfair.

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And by doing that to me, it felt

like I was creating imperfection.

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Frederick: Wow.

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I'm almost less speechless because

I am a dad as well and I think

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about my own journey and yeah.

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We have so much pressure on us

to be quote unquote perfect.

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It's almost imaginary, right?

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There's no such thing.

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And but to have you reflect on that

and realize how it gave you almost

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an advantage is really amazing.

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That journey reshaped how you see

fatherhood, but I imagine it also

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changed how you lead at work, how

you show up in other rooms as well.

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Even how you define ambition.

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You've built programs for CEOs, you've

taught leadership in MBA programs.

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You've founded ambitious dads.

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When you zoom out, what changed in how

you define success after becoming a dad?

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Jeff Hittner: What changed in

defining I guess that the conclusions

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we come to continue to evolve.

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so that the feelings that we're

going through, the way that we're

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learning and transforming, like if

we're good and connect with ourselves

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and we identify what we're feeling

in the moment or what we're like

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experiencing, we also recognize that.

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That just is in that moment, and

there's still like a wine, right?

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Like it's still maturing.

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And then maybe two weeks from now

you're going to have a different

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take on that experience or that

trauma or that transformation.

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And so a big piece of it is for me,

in terms of how I coach and how I

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work with others, is helping them

recognize that there needs to be a.

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Continual like check-in with

themselves about how that dilemma,

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that trauma, that experience, that

learning is evolving inside of them.

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Because just because it feels like X today

doesn't mean it'll feel like X tomorrow.

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I think that's a been a big piece.

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Frederick: You mentioned at one point you

were so focused on making an impact that

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income wasn't even a thought, and that

until your wife challenged you on that,

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how did that conversation change you?

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Jeff Hittner: Because that helped me

ident, we all I was having an interesting

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conversation similar to this today.

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We all.

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There's a lot of similarities that, in

terms of symptoms that we have as human

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beings, some people are, you know a

lot of people that are perfectionists

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or a lot of people that procrastinate

or a lot of people that are X, Y,

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or Z and those are all symptoms.

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The question is.

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What is the hidden commitment or

like the hidden trauma underneath

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that is creating that and that can

be very distinct for every person.

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And when my wife told me I need you

to tell me that you want to make

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money, I realize that I had so over

committed to wanting to make an

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impact in the world that I feared.

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That focusing on making money

too was somehow going to taint my

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values, my definition of success

and a whole host of things.

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And when I got to the point where I could

reflect on what she said, I realized like.

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I had I, I had already built who I was.

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I had already built my values

and was comfortable in them.

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I had built my definition of success.

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I had built a career and those

weren't going to disappear be

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because I suddenly decided, it's

probably a good idea to focus on the

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economic soci side of this as well.

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So I think that was pretty key.

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Frederick: So saying all that, how do

you now help dads hold both their drive

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for meaningful work and then their

responsibility to their family as well?

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Jeff Hittner: It's a little bit of

the reverse of what my wife did to me.

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It's asking them like, what

is your definition of success?

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Have you really asked yourself

that question and what would, and

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sometimes it's, it that's also.

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It's too overshadowed

by their own judgment.

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So you ask them like what would be your

definition of success for your child?

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And you realize like those two things

aren't really aligned sometimes.

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Oh, like what would, what they would

say is success for their child isn't

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what they would say for themselves.

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Why is that?

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What is your definition of being a

provider and how is that different than

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say what your dad's definition of being

a provider was and discovering that?

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Yeah, like now being a provider, I

don't think of it just financially.

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I think if I'm a provider, I'm providing

emotional and psychological safety and

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support, not just financial support.

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And so seeing that our definitions

have expanded, so big piece of

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my work is helping dads, have the

courage to ask that, say that.

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And also recognize they're

not the only ones struggling

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with it and thinking about it.

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Frederick: Yeah, just just yesterday

I was watching a video by Dr.

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Brendan.

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I don't know if you

follow him on Instagram.

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Dr.

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Brennan is a masculinity expert focusing

on boys, teenage boys in, in specific,

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but just how we raise our kids.

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And then, men's work he's a sociologist.

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He was saying how the way boys are

raised is that they are not allowed

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in some ways to express themselves

emotionally or even to understand.

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How to talk about emotions.

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And and they fear that if they

get better at it at that age,

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they won't quote unquote fit in.

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And so they don't even do the

work because they're afraid

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that if they step into that.

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They will be ostracized

and ultimately alone.

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It was a really interesting kind of

clip that I was watching, but it speaks

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to what you're talking about, which

is like you're working with dads who

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are now grown men who were most likely

conditioned in the same way, where they

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just weren't used to talking about 'em,

and now it's almost like they're scared

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of them because it's so uncomfortable.

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And part of the part of what I love

about the work that you're doing is

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that you don't really shy away from

the emotional side, which brings us to

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something that you call your superpower.

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You said asking for help is your

superpower, and I think that's rare,

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especially among high performing dads.

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How did you learn to do that?

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Jeff Hittner: Even before how

I learned to do it, I didn't

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even know it was a superpower.

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Hour until another dad was like, Y

you're always good at asking for help.

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And I turned to him

and I was like, really?

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This is just natural to me,

but it's not truly natural.

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What I, it comes from my childhood.

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So I was I was a gymnast.

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My, I was an elite gymnast.

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I always dreamed about

being in the Olympics.

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I, from the age of eight

to 21 was, in the gym.

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Four hours a day, six days a week.

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And in order to be great at a

sport like gymnastics, you need

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to ask for feedback all the time.

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You need to, it's not like shooting

hoops where, yeah, it's of course

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always important to get feedback, but

you can spend your time by yourself.

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No.

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You always need feedback.

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And by the way, back then, before we

all had our cell phones, you needed

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someone else to be filming you, right?

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So you couldn't, you really

couldn't be by yourself.

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and I think it really instilled in

me somehow I transferred that idea

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of asking for help from my coach and

coaches to every aspect of my life.

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And I can't say that it was

intentional, but it was a natural part

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of what came with the sport that I

chose and the childhood that I had.

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Frederick: Yeah I have this

funny re memory from my.

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Childhood of going on a

road trip with my family.

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Back then, it was pretty common,

I think, in the states to drive

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to where your destination was.

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And we were going to Disney World

and I'm I grew up in New York, so

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this is a long drive with our family.

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We had a station wagon.

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It's the classics story, right?

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Family vacation.

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I have two older brothers,

so it's the three of us.

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Jeff Hittner: Chevy Chase.

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Frederick: It's it's exactly

like natural lampoons, right?

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Not exactly, obviously, but thankfully.

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But I remember it, my, there was

a point where my dad got lost and

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he would not ask for directions.

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And so I often think of this story though

in the sense of men literally won't

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ask for help even when they're lost.

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And when we think about the emotional

piece of it like I know from my

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own journey of doing my own work,

like I felt lost, many times.

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The only way out for me was to ask myself

a lot of really difficult questions

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that I weren't comfortable facing.

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Some ugly truths, and then

also going to therapy.

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I think, part of why I even started this

podcast was to talk to other men directly

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about how important it is to ask for help.

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So I'm just appreciative that you're here

to talk about it on your own journey.

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What have you seen happen

when dad's finally.

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Let themselves ask for help.

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Jeff Hittner: A lot.

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One of the biggest thing I've

asked, I've interviewed almost

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200 dads now, and of the.

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Commonalities that a lot of

dads have is this worry that.

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That they're gonna instill sort of

their shortcomings, their emotional

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challenges into their kids because

they haven't solved for them yet.

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Because as I'm sure you've talked

about too, like one of the big

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kind of self discoveries we have

as dads is where we still need to

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do a lot of our own emotional work.

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And recognizing that and then starting

to have that conversation that, hey, like

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maybe your child doesn't need therapy yet.

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Maybe it's you that needs

to start the therapy.

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And then you can figure out like, where to

go from there with your son or daughter.

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That's been.

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Big piece and I'll never forget in, in

my last founding Fathers program, so I

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run this 12 week program for dads and

we talked about triggers and I asked

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all these men, about what they thought

was of triggering moment, and I, a

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define triggering moment as when you

have this, Complete overreaction to

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something that your child does, right?

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And that overreaction means it's

really not about what your child does,

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but it's a connection to something

unresolved from your own life.

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Two thirds of those men hadn't

even heard the word trigger before.

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Just becoming aware of these,

rough parts of our personalities

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is a first and important step.

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And then figuring out how to work through

them is where I like to do the work too.

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And I will also say,

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Again, this has come naturally to me,

but I've had many as you heard, one of

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them about being a dad, ups and downs in

my life, but I've always built support

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systems around me to manage them.

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It can be marriage ending when you find

out you can't have a biological family.

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But at the time, my wife and I

already had a therapist because

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we wanted to grow together.

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We wanted to not because there

was like a, an acute issue.

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Then all of a sudden

there was an acute issue.

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And so it was super easy, literally within

three days to go in and to talk about, oh

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my God, like we have this thing happening.

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How do we manage this

together and separately?

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And so to build that base of support

system is so powerful because.

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That was before we have kids.

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Now.

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We all have kids and we know, like these

sorts of crazy things happen all the time.

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And we need to be able to have

conversations about that sometimes.

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Some of our our time together in these

programs is just talking about what

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are the highest highs and lowest lows

you're going through as a dad right now?

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And hearing that other dads are going

through the exact same thing, literally.

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We'll drop your cortisone

levels like by a factor of 10.

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Because I think part of what we,

when we don't ask for help and we do

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keep everything in, we think we're

the only ones with that problem.

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and when we discover we're not,

that is such a great first step.

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And then the next step is to share.

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Frederick: Yeah.

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Yeah.

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You're talking about something I

see in my work all the time too,

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which is when dad's, mom's, leaders.

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Get courageous enough to ask for help,

like everything opens up from there.

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And it's funny because I think generally

speaking, men are typically logical.

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And, can are good at planning

and making, that sort of thing.

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It seems so logical.

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If you don't know something, ask for help.

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If we don't know how to do something

right, fix something around the

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house, like what do we do first?

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Like nowadays we go to YouTube.

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At least that's what I do.

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I think most people do that, right?

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It's oh, let me see if I could fix it.

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Let me go watch a YouTube video.

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If I don't know about

this thing, I'll get help.

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It's literally like we're talking about

the same exact stuff, but because it's

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emotions and it's relationships and it's.

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Parenting.

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It almost feels like we're,

I don't know why it is but

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we're not allowed to need help.

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Like we should just know how to be a great

dad, or we should know how to be a great

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partner, and that's just simply not true.

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You have to do the work.

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You don't know everything,

and that's okay.

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That's a huge awareness piece.

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Like I think change starts first with

awareness like you were talking about, and

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that's such, you're providing such a great

forum for that because I think it is hard

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for men and dads to talk openly in some

spaces about what they're struggling with.

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So having that private space where

they're with other men and being a little

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more vulnerable, but being accepted for

that vulnerability, it's so powerful.

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So it's so before we get to the

asking for help part, it's almost

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like we have to sit in the hard stuff.

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And you talked about the mess,

messy middle of modern fatherhood.

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You described it being an interrupted

dad as living in a paradigm shift, the

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messy middle between what society expects

and what we expect out of ourselves.

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What does that feel like

for you on a daily basis?

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Jeff Hittner: On a daily basis.

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Within my family as you can imagine I'm

super comfortable being the dad that I

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want to be sharing my vulnerabilities with

my kids and embracing them doing the same.

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But then when we step out in our

interaction with other people, that's

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where the messy middle gets interesting.

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An example that comes to mind is.

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My oldest was getting

a shot at the doctor.

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And, we go to the doctor's

office and it's like this super

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old doctor and super old nurse.

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And he sits down to get the shot

in his arm and they're saying

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like, all right, be a big boy.

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This is, you'll be, show miss.

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Show us your courage.

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You'll be fine.

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I literally got angry and was

like, no, You can feel whatever

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you want to feel right now.

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This is a hundred percent okay,

like this would be scary for me.

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Whatever you wanna feel.

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Feel it.

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I am here and I am going to

give you a big hug afterwards.

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And it was amazing how that

transformed the experience for him

344

:

because he did cry a little bit.

345

:

And then we had this big bear

hug, and then he didn't even

346

:

talk about it afterwards.

347

:

And this wasn't the

first time he got a shot.

348

:

The last time the month before, he

claimed that his arm hurt for three days.

349

:

Because I did, I wasn't

there to accompany him.

350

:

And so he had gotten this be a man's

conversation this time he had a

351

:

very different one with me and it

created a very different result.

352

:

I don't know if I'm, I doubt the

doctor and nurse learned anything from

353

:

that, but that I think is a little

bit of the example you're asking for.

354

:

It's like I still externally have

to compete with these stereotypes.

355

:

And I'm.

356

:

curious as a dad that

is at home all the time.

357

:

I work from home.

358

:

I think almost none of us had

that with our dads growing up.

359

:

What that's gonna feel like for

our kids when they're adults,

360

:

Frederick: Yep.

361

:

Jeff Hittner: To have their

dad around to be able to.

362

:

Ask and do things with them

during the day in the summer.

363

:

I just, I'm excited to see what that

feels like for them going forward too.

364

:

So I think that's a piece of it

because again, that's like changing

365

:

the societal experience as well.

366

:

Frederick: Yeah.

367

:

Yeah.

368

:

It's I always say people are like,

oh, it's such a huge problem.

369

:

What do I do about it?

370

:

You start in your own home.

371

:

That's what you do about it.

372

:

First, you start in your

local community second, right?

373

:

You like, you wanna change the

world, you gotta start where you are.

374

:

And so I think the most impact

parents can have clearly is in

375

:

their own home with their own kids.

376

:

So you talked about your that specific

example, but where do you see the dads

377

:

you work with most stuck right now?

378

:

And what would help them get unstuck?

379

:

Jeff Hittner: They're stuck

on a number of common issues.

380

:

One, they're stuck on the fact that,

they don't know how to heal themselves,

381

:

and creating a space for them to start

that conversation is been amazing.

382

:

I think they're also

stuck on this tension.

383

:

It's huge tension between like

their ambition at work and their

384

:

ambition to be great at home.

385

:

And that tension is.

386

:

Filled with guilt because they don't

know or think if they're do, that

387

:

they're doing a great job at either

sometimes or at one or the other.

388

:

And the irony is first of all, women

have been experiencing that for forever

389

:

as well, trying to work and be at home.

390

:

Have created community to have

those conversations with each other.

391

:

And they know how to talk about like how

much it sucks, like to feel that tension.

392

:

And the men don't because

there's no solution.

393

:

I'm not like, there's nobody,

no one should be preaching a

394

:

solution to the work-life balance.

395

:

It's hard.

396

:

So it's about being able to.

397

:

Express that it's hard.

398

:

This is what I'm feeling right now.

399

:

I'm feeling like, man, like

it's really important that I

400

:

be at work for these things.

401

:

And it's such an important time

at home right now with my kids.

402

:

This sucks.

403

:

And someone else saying, yes,

I feel the same way, and just

404

:

like sharing their experiences.

405

:

And so that tension is a really big piece.

406

:

And I, and again having the community is

a really big place where they're stuck,

407

:

and that's for a couple of reasons.

408

:

One some of them that come into

my programs are actually meeting

409

:

up with other dads, but they're

not having deep conversations.

410

:

They're just meeting up for beers

and they're talking about sports

411

:

and they're not talking about

what's keeping them up at night.

412

:

I designed my programs that

it's vulnerable from the get go.

413

:

So that's the only thing that

we're talking about, right?

414

:

Is the depth of what keeps us up

at night and why we are feeling

415

:

less than confident about like our

fatherhood or our work at the moment.

416

:

And a lot of dads are stuck at because

they don't know how to do that.

417

:

In a, a, in a di in a, in their own

context in their own communities, right?

418

:

They're doing it with me virtually.

419

:

So those are a bunch of the

areas where I see them stuck.

420

:

And then another big area I think

we touched on at the beginning

421

:

is around success, right?

422

:

Like they're stuck on like this definition

of success 'cause they haven't all been

423

:

challenged yet or before as to what

success really should look like, 'cause.

424

:

I think so many of us.

425

:

Have one definition of success, and

then things keep piling on as we get

426

:

more mature in our adulthood, right?

427

:

First, we're just working for

ourselves, so the definition of

428

:

success might be pretty darn easy.

429

:

Frederick: Yeah.

430

:

Jeff Hittner: Then we get a partner

and then like it changes a little bit,

431

:

but you're still, you're still two

adults and then you get kids, right?

432

:

And so you keep adding these things.

433

:

So if your definition isn't flexible,

you're just getting overwhelmed.

434

:

But then on top of that, as we see.

435

:

With our culture in the States right

now maybe what we see on Instagram

436

:

all the time and in the news and on

TV isn't really what we wanna define

437

:

as success and purposeful life.

438

:

And so be able to have that

conversation is a, is another

439

:

huge piece of getting unstuck.

440

:

Frederick: For you personally, what of

all the beliefs that you held previously

441

:

prior to becoming a dad, what was the

hardest belief that you had to unlearn?

442

:

Is that something you can recall

443

:

Jeff Hittner: Wow, it's

an awesome question.

444

:

Frederick: Like.

445

:

Jeff Hittner: you know what, honestly.

446

:

It was probably that it, even

though I wanted to be a dad my

447

:

whole life, that it was somehow

something that comes naturally.

448

:

Like I had to overcome that, like being a.

449

:

or great father.

450

:

I want to be a great

father requires intention.

451

:

And that is true for moms too.

452

:

Like you you can ask, and I ask

a ton of moms just like dads.

453

:

None of that comes naturally.

454

:

There may be some natural.

455

:

Skills in those first like

six to 12 months as a mom

456

:

because it's very instinctual.

457

:

But when we talk about raising

our kids, when they are starting

458

:

to think cognitively and have

emotions like that is not a natural.

459

:

on those things is not natural.

460

:

It is something that we need

to be intentional about.

461

:

And that's also why like the school

I picked for my kids, I was super

462

:

intentional looking for a school where

you could walk into a classroom and see

463

:

10 emotions hanging across the wall where

they're teaching the kids about emotions.

464

:

I never had that growing up.

465

:

Could you imagine?

466

:

And so learning about emotions,

learning about my emotions,

467

:

challenging this idea that.

468

:

Sadness or anger, anything but

happiness was a good emotion.

469

:

No, all, there are no good or bad

emotions like learning all of that

470

:

stuff has been the key pieces for me.

471

:

Frederick: Yeah, I love that.

472

:

For me, it was redefining provider.

473

:

You mentioned that earlier in, in

our conversation, being able to

474

:

actually realize that it's not just

financial, that it's so much more

475

:

than that actually for me person.

476

:

And it's for everyone to define

for themselves in my opinion.

477

:

So I don't wanna say this is your

definition, this is just mine.

478

:

But for me, providing, the emotional

support, emotional intelligence.

479

:

Being able to be, just be present

without being like distracted on

480

:

my phone or thinking about work.

481

:

Just being in the room and, playing

and having like fun with my kids.

482

:

All of those things is

part of providing for me.

483

:

And I would say more important

than the money piece.

484

:

Obviously in our society we need

money to pay our bills and have a

485

:

house over our heads and have food.

486

:

It's important but yeah, to, I, I just

don't rank it as high as the other things

487

:

that dads and moms provide to their kids.

488

:

And being able to change that

definition for me actually opened up

489

:

so much more worth in intrinsically.

490

:

I struggled for a long time.

491

:

Not feeling like I was worthy or had

I, there was very like, lacking of

492

:

self-confidence and I made money.

493

:

But it was, it still wasn't, I just

didn't feel like I was doing enough.

494

:

I just always felt like I wasn't enough.

495

:

And so when I started to really

think about that and dive deeper into

496

:

that work, I was like, man, like all

this stuff was just handed to me.

497

:

Like I just inherited these beliefs.

498

:

I, it was modeled for

me and it's not real.

499

:

It just isn't real.

500

:

It's not what I believe.

501

:

But it took some really it wasn't like

an overnight thought about it once,

502

:

journaled about it twice and that's done.

503

:

It was a lot of work.

504

:

So if you could make, if you could wave a

magic wand and change one thing about how

505

:

society sees dads, what would you change?

506

:

Jeff Hittner: I guess that they

see them as secondary to moms.

507

:

There's actually so much great

neuroscience and other research

508

:

coming out that is proving that to

be a hundred percent contradictory.

509

:

We are not secondary to moms.

510

:

We are.

511

:

important.

512

:

It may come at slightly different

stages, like maybe month zero to

513

:

six is a little bit different.

514

:

But actually in terms of bonding, in

terms of our own biological changes,

515

:

we, it's just as critical that we're

deeply involved at that, that time.

516

:

So it would really be about, and

also look at paternity leave, which.

517

:

Still barely exists except that, the

upper echelons tech and finance companies.

518

:

All of that is so critical that

change is so critical to creating a

519

:

society where we talk about these kids

feeling deeply loved and supported

520

:

by both parents and getting all the

things that they need from both of us.

521

:

I would change that in a heartbeat.

522

:

Frederick: So all of this talk about the

messy middle and being able to find what

523

:

success truly might look like for you

and define it clearly and realize that

524

:

ambition can include being a great dad.

525

:

It really points to something deeper the

way I see it, which is legacy, not just

526

:

what we do as dads, but what our kids

actually take away from watching us live.

527

:

When you think about your boys watching

you lead ambitious dads, what's the

528

:

message that you hope they take from that?

529

:

Jeff Hittner: I think it's a little bit

about what I talked about, like intention,

530

:

but it's also about another theme

that we talked about is imperfection.

531

:

I try to tell them that I'm always.

532

:

Learning and trying to do better.

533

:

One of our one of our skills

as a family is repair.

534

:

Like I screw up my kids screw up.

535

:

And we are big at like coming

back and giving a big hug

536

:

after, after the boys calm down.

537

:

And so I, I think those

are, those are pretty key.

538

:

Frederick: If you could freeze

one moment with your kids, how

539

:

old are your kids by the way?

540

:

Jeff Hittner: Five and eight.

541

:

Frederick: Five and eight.

542

:

So up to this point, if you could

freeze one moment with your kids or

543

:

with each of your kids, like which, is

there a memory that stands out that you

544

:

wish you could just hold onto forever?

545

:

Jeff Hittner: There are things that

they have said that make me cry,

546

:

even now that I think about it.

547

:

including one as recently as a week

ago when my kids are in the sciencey

548

:

books at the moment, and they the

concept of DNA came up and so I, I

549

:

use that as an excuse to to remind

them like they have a, that they come

550

:

from a donor and my oldest, somehow

it came up about we meet the donor?

551

:

And I said, yeah, when you turn

18 the, then you're you'll be

552

:

legally allowed to meet the donor.

553

:

And my son goes why 18?

554

:

And I was like, I'm not really sure.

555

:

And he goes, you know what?

556

:

I think it's maybe because.

557

:

They wanna make sure that you're

not like angry at like your dad.

558

:

And he was referring to me and he's I

don't ever have to worry about that.

559

:

I love you more than anything.

560

:

And just started bawling and my youngest

was like, yeah, this look of surprise.

561

:

'cause I didn't think he quite understood

it, but, was just such a powerful

562

:

comment and it just totally made me cry.

563

:

And they say things a lot that just

really touch me at their own level.

564

:

First day of school was this week.

565

:

I wrote each of them a little

note and put in their lunchbox.

566

:

My youngest can't read yet, so I

made it into hieroglyphics and it

567

:

was just like an image of an eye.

568

:

A heart and then the letter U.

569

:

'cause he knows, at least

he knows that letter.

570

:

And like the older one, I wrote like a

more profound note, but it was my younger

571

:

one who opened it up, loved it so much.

572

:

He didn't wanna bring it to school.

573

:

He wanted to hang it in his room.

574

:

And so it's like stuff like that just

they, it just touches me so much.

575

:

And those moments can be surprising.

576

:

Like they, sometimes they come out of,

I'm saying they come outta nowhere.

577

:

They, I, they obviously don't,

but but they mean the world to me.

578

:

Yeah.

579

:

Frederick: Yeah.

580

:

Yeah, I love that and I appreciate you

sharing, getting a little emotional.

581

:

I think it's important for men to

talk about crying because we've

582

:

been told that's another thing

that, we're not supposed to cry.

583

:

We're supposed to be tough all the time.

584

:

And that's also just a fallacy.

585

:

I'm a crier.

586

:

So when you imagine them as adults,

what do you hope they say about Dad?

587

:

Jeff Hittner: My, my oldest was

like, he told me that he wanted

588

:

to go to college in the same town

as where we live and live at home.

589

:

And I was like, yes, I was like that.

590

:

So that's part of contradicting

like our culture, right?

591

:

Where I was like, I win, like I

have created such a safe space for

592

:

him that like, he loves the idea of

living in the house even when he is

593

:

20 and dating even though he probably

doesn't even think about dating yet.

594

:

But so I think it's that I

never want to be his friend.

595

:

I always want to be his dad.

596

:

And I and I believe in that strongly.

597

:

And so I, what I want them to think when

they're grow up is that they can always

598

:

like, get that support and connection

from me and feel comfortable about

599

:

screwing up and telling me about it.

600

:

Because again, I'm trying to build

that culture that we fail and that

601

:

we're always trying to be better.

602

:

And there was one time I was, the kids

were asleep in the car, or I thought

603

:

they were, and I was listening to a Tony

Robbins podcast and I turned around and.

604

:

My oldest was awake, and I was

like, oh, have you been listening?

605

:

And he's yeah.

606

:

And I was like, oh, w what

did you, what did you think?

607

:

What am I listening to?

608

:

And he's it sounds like you're listening

to a podcast about how to be a better dad.

609

:

And I was like, a hundred percent.

610

:

Because I always wanna be, be better

at the things that I care most about.

611

:

And like after that, I just felt

oh, I wanna share that more often.

612

:

I want them to know that I'm

always working on myself too.

613

:

And I think that's another thing that.

614

:

Dads need to develop the muscle for

is not just improving themselves, but

615

:

letting them, letting their kids know

that's an important part of life.

616

:

'cause God, lifelong learning is

the only way we're gonna thrive.

617

:

Much less survive going forward.

618

:

Frederick: I love that

you're talking about this.

619

:

'cause it really brings up a lot for

me in my relationship with my father.

620

:

My father passed in 21 but he

struggled with mental health.

621

:

He struggled with addiction to alcohol

which is just as bad as anything else.

622

:

And like he was a, he, I, my wife and

I were out to dinner the other night.

623

:

We were, somehow it came up and

I was like, he was a good dad.

624

:

And she's you don't

have to say that, right?

625

:

And I was like what do you mean?

626

:

Like he was, and she's not really.

627

:

And she knows a lot.

628

:

And I can't, obviously on this podcast

not gonna be able to tell the whole story.

629

:

But there, there's a lot there.

630

:

And.

631

:

I was like, yeah it's I hear you.

632

:

I hear what you're saying, but it's hard,

because I remem I have very great memories

633

:

of my dad and I when I was really young,

playing Wiffle ball and him taking me

634

:

to baseball games and things like that.

635

:

And but when he got older,

he almost gave up in a way.

636

:

And I don't think he did it

like intentionally oh, I'm not

637

:

gonna be there for my kids.

638

:

He was just, he was struggling so

much and he didn't ask for help.

639

:

This is my dad who didn't ask for

directions on the way to Disney World.

640

:

Same guy.

641

:

So he didn't go get therapy, and so it

was like what you're talking about, like

642

:

always being dad and not being friend.

643

:

I really think that's so crucial.

644

:

Even when they're 30, even when

they're 40, like you're still there

645

:

to listen and to guide and to.

646

:

Help if they need it.

647

:

Obviously you're not trying to insert

yourselves into their lives, but

648

:

you're there and they know that.

649

:

And I think that's so important.

650

:

My dad was there and he was, he cared.

651

:

He would, he was a crier, so I learned

that it was okay to cry from him.

652

:

So I learned some really good stuff from

my dad on the emotional side of things

653

:

especially, but I also learned like

how who I don't want to be for my kids.

654

:

So I appreciate you, you recognizing

how important role of dad is.

655

:

From, not only now while they're

young, but also as they get older.

656

:

Jeff Hittner: Yeah.

657

:

Frederick: So that's the personal side

of things, but there's also practical

658

:

side of things like, what do we do?

659

:

What do we do with this?

660

:

So for the dad listening right now

who's like quietly wondering, if he's

661

:

doing anything right where she start.

662

:

Jeff Hittner: It's it's a more

important question than I think

663

:

some people realize because.

664

:

So many dads are, have this confidence

gap which is there's a bunch of research

665

:

by the way that's out there that

says 92% of dads like identify their

666

:

primary identity as being fathers, but

only a third of those dads actually

667

:

think they're doing a good job of it.

668

:

And yet they're not like actually

doing anything about that.

669

:

They're not like going out and.

670

:

Doing any research or listening to

podcasts or joining any programs.

671

:

So I would say like the first thing

to do is to just recognize that there

672

:

are other, that there are groups out

there that are trying to work with

673

:

you at the moment to like not to solve

anything, but just to help you as a

674

:

dad recognize that you're not alone.

675

:

Following your podcast, I have

a podcast called Ambitious Dads.

676

:

Joining like communities, there

are some online communities.

677

:

Go to Substack.

678

:

I write a blog post on

fatherhood all the time.

679

:

There are others that do it too.

680

:

Recognize that if you meeting up, I want

to say this is important, just meeting up

681

:

with other dads and saying I'm doing my

dad thing by meeting up with other dads.

682

:

Isn't what's gonna help you.

683

:

It's having the vulnerable

conversation with those men.

684

:

And if you can't do that with the

people that you're already like, friends

685

:

with, then maybe look online, right?

686

:

Because sometimes starting a new

relationship with other men is

687

:

the easier way to be vulnerable.

688

:

And I've heard that from lots of

people and I've experienced it myself.

689

:

So that's what I'd suggest.

690

:

Frederick: Yeah, that

makes a lot of sense.

691

:

And I love your substack by the way.

692

:

What's one mindset shift that you've

seen personally unlock the most

693

:

freedom for the dads that you coach?

694

:

Jeff Hittner: Again, it goes back to

everything is better with intention.

695

:

Like dads that I have coached that

realized that the biggest thing

696

:

that was missing was just like being

intentional about their fatherhood,

697

:

which meant they all knew what it was

like to develop like a business plan

698

:

and a three year strategy at work.

699

:

But they were never looking at the

forest through the trees as fathers.

700

:

So they were like always reactive.

701

:

And when we sat down.

702

:

And talked about like these bigger

visions for how they wanted to

703

:

father what did they want to define

their primary role as a father?

704

:

So I talk a lot about, like when my

kids were younger, I would say, I would

705

:

make sure that they knew that my primary

role as a dad is to keep you safe.

706

:

And that was true up until, say age four.

707

:

And so when they got into something

and I was like, no, you can't do that.

708

:

And they would start

to, whine and complain.

709

:

I'd be like, Hey.

710

:

What is my number one job as a dad,

and they would be like to keep us

711

:

safe, and I'd be like, absolutely.

712

:

And so it would actually end arguments.

713

:

Now as they've gotten older, they know

that my primary job as a dad is to

714

:

help them grow and teach them, right?

715

:

And so again.

716

:

Knowing that has enabled like

the conversation to steer more

717

:

from a be steered from a values

perspective as opposed to a yes

718

:

no black and white perspective.

719

:

'cause kids always wanna know why, right?

720

:

Why can't I do this?

721

:

Why can't I watch three

more episodes of Bluey?

722

:

Why can't I watch God?

723

:

What's that horrible K-pop

724

:

Frederick: demon hunters.

725

:

Yeah.

726

:

Jeff Hittner: Because my

job is to help you grow.

727

:

So we're gonna do something that's

not watching Gabe Ho demon Hunter.

728

:

Like they can't argue with

729

:

Frederick: It is, it's pretty good though.

730

:

Will say it's pretty good.

731

:

Jeff Hittner: There's a reason.

732

:

It's the number one Netflix show, right?

733

:

So it's that sort of thing.

734

:

And so I think the biggest transformation

is if I have an understanding

735

:

of where I want to take them.

736

:

It doesn't it's not like super

specific, but it's this understanding

737

:

about where I wanna lead from.

738

:

Like what set of values and

what set of like learnings then.

739

:

Fathering takes on a very different

experience for these men, and that's

740

:

what I've seen more than anything.

741

:

Frederick: So before we close out

this incredible conversation, I

742

:

want to bring it back full circle

to where your from where your story

743

:

began to where it's pointing to now.

744

:

So if you could leave dad's

or honestly any parent.

745

:

With one takeaway about leading, with

presence, with courage, with a definition

746

:

of success that's worth passing on, what?

747

:

What do you wanna leave them with?

748

:

Jeff Hittner: I wanna leave them

with the idea that the absolute best

749

:

way to be a better dad or to be a

better parent is to heal yourself.

750

:

It's it's like the

foundation of a pyramid.

751

:

If you heal or work on the things

that are traumas from your life those

752

:

like weaknesses and triggers in your

life, I guarantee if you just focus

753

:

on that selfishly about yourself, you

will become a better parent, a better

754

:

dad and we need more men doing that.

755

:

Frederick: Yeah.

756

:

I don't disagree with you.

757

:

In the work that I've done for on myself

and with other dads, I think one of

758

:

the things I see most is men stuck in

a, what I call a I don't know I dunno

759

:

if this is my terminology or not but

I call it the shame and blame cycle.

760

:

And what it is often unhealed parts of

themselves that they feel shame about and

761

:

instead of actually feeling that shame.

762

:

Being okay with it in a way,

like accepting that it's there

763

:

and using it to do better.

764

:

It's so uncomfortable and ugly to

them and I say that with the most

765

:

raw honesty I can because it was for

me as well, just very hard to face.

766

:

But anything, like when you

face your own suffering and

767

:

your own trauma and your own.

768

:

Unhealed parts of yourself and you

actually realize some of this isn't

769

:

even my responsibility, first of all.

770

:

Like it was inherited and I've taken

it on, but now I'm gonna let it go.

771

:

That is so freeing.

772

:

But it takes some really deep, intentional

and willingness to face those parts,

773

:

which not mo most people don't wanna do.

774

:

It's not their comfort zone,

so they wanna stay comfortable.

775

:

And I think that's

really the crux of it is.

776

:

And I love that you wanna leave dads with.

777

:

Heal, heal yourself first.

778

:

Because I do think that is a huge piece

to, and that's for moms and dad, honestly,

779

:

like the mom guilt is real as well.

780

:

Not we're constantly trying to

like impress someone, whether it's,

781

:

sometimes it's our own parents, maybe

it's society, maybe it's our friends

782

:

to keep up with them, whatever it is.

783

:

And when you actually like peel all

the layers back, you realize like.

784

:

All that really matters is

are you proud of yourself?

785

:

Like how you're showing up for you and

your, for your kids and for your partner.

786

:

And oftentimes we're in our own

way because we're, we have all this

787

:

stuff we just haven't dealt with.

788

:

So I really think that's awesome.

789

:

Jeff, where can people connect with you?

790

:

This has been an incredible conversation.

791

:

I thank you for being here.

792

:

Thank you for sharing your story

and your wisdom and the vision for

793

:

what you believe fatherhood can and

should look like moving forward.

794

:

But where can people find you and

work with you if they want to?

795

:

Jeff Hittner: Thank you.

796

:

Yes.

797

:

Find me@ambitiousdads.com.

798

:

And also the podcast with

the same name, the ambitious.

799

:

STAs podcast.

800

:

That would be amazing.

801

:

Frederick: Awesome.

802

:

Thanks again and we'll talk soon, Jeff.

803

:

Thank you.

804

:

Jeff Hittner: Thank you so much.

805

:

This was awesome.

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About the Podcast

Dads Interrupted
Real Talk on Fatherhood, Relationships, & Growth
What does it mean to be a good man—and a present dad—in a world that never taught you how?

Dads Interrupted is a podcast about fatherhood, masculinity, and the journey to becoming the man your family actually needs. Hosted by men’s coach and dad of 12+ years Fred Van Riper, Dads Interrupted dives deep into the conversations men aren’t having—but desperately need.

We explore what it means to lead with purpose, break free from outdated roles, and build the kind of relationships that change everything—at home, at work, and in your own head.

You’ll hear honest, real-world stories from men navigating fatherhood, marriage, emotional growth, and the myths that hold us back. As a Certified Fair Play Facilitator, Fred offers tools for shared responsibility, emotional leadership, and creating a home that works for everyone.

This isn’t about losing power—it’s about gaining something far greater: Respect. Intimacy. Legacy.

If you’re ready to break the cycle and build something better—this podcast is your starting point.

Support the show here so we can keep bringing you powerful conversations:
https://dads-interrupted.captivate.fm/

Visit https://www.seatatthetablecoaching.com/ for more tools and coaching resources.
Support This Show

About your host

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Frederick Van Riper

Hi, I'm Fred, a coach, father, and the creator of Seat at the Table Coaching.

I work with men who are doing a lot right on paper…

but still feel like they’re missing at home, stuck in their heads, or showing up as someone they don’t quite recognize.

This pod is where we strip it back.

No lectures. No performance. Just tools, stories, and real conversations to help you lead with more presence—without selling your soul in the process.